We had a situation where a box was drilled and over $60,000 was found in the box. We held the funds and contacted the box owner, who then came in to retreive the funds so they would not get escheated to the state. There was no physical bank trasnaction just the typical SDB contents claim paperwork. Would you file a CTR?

You do not say how the funds were paid to the box owner (credit to account, cashier's check, etc) but I would consider this to be similar to the individual bringing in the cash and would certainly file a CTR.

One think you might consider is a SAR, regarding this activity.

The cash had been in the box for years and the owner of the box now lives out of town. The funds came from an inheritence from the customers father's death so I do not think there is anything "suspicious" regarding the cash being in the box.

We just held the actual cash in safekeeping until the customer came to retreive it. It was never put into an account. The customer picked up the physical funds from our administrative manager who is in charge of SDB drillings. Devsfan what type of transaction would you consider this for CTR reporting? Its not a withdrawal, or a negotiable instrument cashed...

i see no CTR here

I'm in the no CTR camp. The customer did not conduct a transaction with your bank involving the cash.

This is an older BOL post but seems relevant:

http://www.bankersonline.com/security/guru2009/gurus_sec092809a.html

[The customer picked up the physical funds from our administrative manager who is in charge of SDB drillings.]

If by "picking up the physical funds" the original poster meant that he walked out of the bank with the cash how can anyone say that a CTR is not required? If it was given as a cashier's check the cash was brought into the bank either once or over a period of time and I would be hard-pressed to not file a CTR for that cash-in. Either way I would file a CTR.

The CTR is not required because no transaction took place.

I am sorry but I cannot get my mind around not filing a CTR. A SDB is an account for CIP purposes and somehow the $60,000 in cash got into the bank either all at once or over time and now the customer is walking out of the bank with $60,000 in cash.

Here's another post to consider:

http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1330259

Definition of Money Laundering Transaction

By statute, the term transaction includes a purchase, sale, loan, pledge, gift, transfer, delivery, or other disposition, and with respect to a financial institution includes a deposit, withdrawal, transfer between accounts, exchange of currency, loan, extension of credit, purchase or sale of any stock, bond, certificate of deposit, or other monetary instrument, use of a safe deposit box, or any other payment, transfer, or delivery by, through, or to a financial institution, by whatever means effected.

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part9/irm_09-005-005.html

The IRS may disagree

Ed,

Should we not instead consider the definition of transaction found in 31 CFR X, since that's the statute that governs CTRs?

(bbb)Transaction.

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (bbb)(2) of this section, transaction means a purchase, sale, loan, pledge, gift, transfer, delivery, or other disposition, and with respect to a financial institution includes a deposit, withdrawal, transfer between accounts, exchange of currency, loan, extension of credit, purchase or sale of any stock, bond, certificate of deposit, or other monetary instrument, security, contract of sale of a commodity for future delivery, option on any contract of sale of a commodity for future delivery, option on a commodity, purchase or redemption of any money order, payment or order for any money remittance or transfer, purchase or redemption of casino chips or tokens, or other gaming instruments or any other payment, transfer, or delivery by, through, or to a financial institution, by whatever means effected.

(2) For purposes of §§ 1010.311, 1010.313, 1020.315, 1021.311, 1021.313, and other provisions of this chapter relating solely to the report required by those sections, the term “transaction in currency” shall mean a transaction involving the physical transfer of currency from one person to another. A transaction which is a transfer of funds by means of bank check, bank draft, wire transfer, or other written order, and which does not include the physical transfer of currency, is not a transaction in currency for this purpose.

In my prior banks we issued a Bank Check for all non "collectable" currency so it was cut and dry to file. There is a lot that can be read into 31 CRF X

“transaction in currency” shall mean a transaction involving the physical transfer of currency from one person to another

Funds are going from the customers control to the banks control back to the customers control.

It would be a lot easier it they adopted the IRS or specifically excluded the Safe Deposit transaction in question.

There is also the "transfer, delivery" in section 1.


I would not argue strongly (or fault) either way.

There is always the call to FinCen option and document.

I think we can all agree that a good case can be made for either decision.

That said, I think we can also all agree, regardless of which way we lean, that Ed has provided the best piece of advice here:

If the bank hadn't drilled the box, and a customer came in and removed this money, a CTR wouldn't have been filed.
I think I would have to agree to no CTR. The customer didn't exchange the money or purchase a monetary instrument, no deposit, no withdrawal.

No CTR camp here as well.

I agree with no CTR. No transaction occurred.

I don't feel a CTR is warranted here either, and if you feel strongly enough to report it then perhaps a SAR should be filed if you have concerns as to the source of funds or the reasons it was placed in a SDB and not into the customers account. Just a thought

I'm late to choir rehearsal, but I'll join those singing "No CTR." The cash was the customer's before he walked in the door and it was his when he left. The bank never had ownership.

If the bank had followed EdAudit's advice and converted the cash into a cashier's check, later delivered to the box lessee, there would be a cash purchase CTR to be filed.

I too agree - No CTR - No transaction was performed by the bank.