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#1974019 - 11/04/14 05:46 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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#1974104 - 11/04/14 08:50 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
Aggs Offline
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I don't know why this is a discussion. Brady is the best, hands down, no contest. Much better QB.

This weekend was the prime example. The dude who always gets the stats got his stats. The dude who doesn't choke during big games won the game.

Stats don't always tell the whole story. Plus, Manning has been a starter longer than Brady.

Oh, and check out Manning's playoff stats the year he managed to win the Superbowl. Including his stats during the SB. He was terrible. The Colts won in spite of him, not because of him. NE usually wins because of Brady, not in spite of him.

I have been on the Brady > Manning bandwagon for years and I've never seen anything to change my mind.

I'm in Indy and I became a Colts fan finally after Manning left. I've never had a more enjoyable SB than the most recent one when the Broncos were humiliated. Good times. grin
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#1974136 - 11/04/14 10:04 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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Listen, I'll take Brady over Manning any day of the week and twice on Sundays. One, because I think Brady's a better QB who has done way more with way less. But second, and maybe more importantly, it was Peyton's brother that spoiled the perfect season! Not to mention the additional pain of a second SB defeat at the hands of Eli. So I pretty much despise anything that has a Manning in its name.

I enjoyed this past Sunday immensely!
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#1974142 - 11/04/14 10:28 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition RVFlyboy
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18-1 awesome!
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#1974154 - 11/04/14 10:54 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition Peepers
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First of all, teams win Superbowls, not QBs. Are you going to tell me that Jim Plunkett was better than Dan Marino because his team won a Superbowl and Marino's team didn't?

Secondly, no question that, head-to-head, Brady's team beats Manning's team most of the time. That's indisputable. Did Brady outplay Manning in those contests? Don't know, but I suspect he did.

Thirdly, based on passing statistics, you have to give both Manning and Brady their due. But being QB is also about game management, and that is difficult to quantify.

Fourth, Eli Manning's teams won 2 Superbowls, Peyton's teams only 1. Does that make Eli a better QB?
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#1974925 - 11/06/14 09:01 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition Peepers
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Originally Posted By: Peepers
18-1 awesome!
16-0 regular season was pretty awesome. Making it to the Superbowl 5 times in the last 13 years has also been pretty awesome. Haters gonna hate.
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#1974927 - 11/06/14 09:08 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Brady or Manning?

I'll take Drew Brees, thanks...
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#1974930 - 11/06/14 09:13 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition RVFlyboy
Bobby Boucher Offline
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Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
One, because I think Brady's a better QB who has done way more with way less.

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Making it to the Superbowl 5 times in the last 13 years has also been pretty awesome.

So, then, what we're saying is either:

- Brady is single-handedly responsible for overcoming his [censored] team to reach 5 Superbowls?

Or

- If only it weren't for Peyton, those fabulous Indy and Denver teams would have reached the Superbowl more often?
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#1974939 - 11/06/14 09:32 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition RVFlyboy
burkemi Offline
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Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
One, because I think Brady's a better QB who has done way more with way less.


I've never been able to fathom this "more with less" argument. Again I'll point out, Brady goes out for the season and the Pats still finish 11-5; who is the back up?....Matt Cassell, not exactly Mr. Superstar Quarterback. Manning is out for a season and Indy goes 2-14....essentially the same playoff team from the year before (minus Manning); who is the back up?.....Kerry Collins, also not exactly Mr. Superstar Quarterback. But did have a respectable NFL career.

If you want to argue that Brady is better....GREAT!!!! But use arguments that can actually be factually supported.
Last edited by burkemi; 11/06/14 09:33 PM.
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#1975010 - 11/07/14 01:17 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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There is no way to quantify who is better by stats-who is to say which stat(s) take precedence over the other?

More with less seems pretty straight forward-how well has a team done with relative no names vs. all stars.

Certainly how the team does without the star speaks to the overall team philosophy and talent evaluation. Cassel did well filling in for Brady, but as I recall that season, they didn't beat anyone "good"-they beat up on the sallies and lost to the good teams.

I don't take anything away from Manning or his accomplishments-he wouldn't be my first choice if I had to pick one QB to win a game for me. Brady, Rogers and Brees would be ahead of him for me. Everything has to be just right for Manning. JMHO.
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#1975019 - 11/07/14 02:24 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition DD Regs
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Originally Posted By: DD Regs

But now account for the fact that Manning:
-Has had better weapons to work with most seasons

Brady has had the better coach and defenses to work with, where Peyton has a had the better recieving core.


Originally Posted By: DD Regs
Throw in that Brady has undeniably been the better postseason QB...


I still don't buy the "more with less" argument. Quantify it for me. Brady has had Wes Welker (NEs all time leading receiver), Randy Moss (single season TD record holder), Still has Gronk (if things hold up will be a 1st ballot HoF), Corey Dillon (heckuva RB).....Not like he's had scraps with which to work. Manning AND Brady have been surrounded by a wealth of talent - to say anything otherwise is actually kinda silly. More than anything else, I think, is that the receivers they've had....well, those receivers have had the luxury of having either Manning or Brady as his QB.

"...Brady has undeniably been the better postseason QB..."

Post season career statistics........

Comp-----Att-----Pct-----Yds-----YPA-----TD-----INT
587------874-----61.7----6589----7.3-----37-----24
580------950-----61.1----6424----6.8-----43-----22

Yep, pretty undeniable that the post season shapes up to be pretty well identical.....which QB belongs to which row?
Last edited by burkemi; 11/07/14 02:34 PM.
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#1975045 - 11/07/14 03:02 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition TB 12
burkemi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
Certainly how the team does without the star speaks to the overall team philosophy and talent evaluation. Cassel did well filling in for Brady, but as I recall that season, they didn't beat anyone "good"-they beat up on the sallies and lost to the good teams.


Ummmmm, you know this is the NFL, right? Go stand in the middle of the '09 Lions (0-16 record) roster and tell them that they're a bunch of sallies - kinda curious how long you'd survive. The worst team by the NFL's standard is still comprised of the best talent and is far superior to any other level of this sport. The quote, "Any given Sunday" is very accurate. Even the '09 Lions played some respectable games during the year, even if they did lose. So I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you simply meant by comparsion......so let's compare.

"They didn't beat anyone good..." Well, the guess the superbowl runner up sucked that year.......cause the Pats beat 'em with Matt Cassell as QB. Playoff team Miami Dolphins apparently sucked too, cause Pats beat them too. Otherwise, they played 4 other teams with respectable records.....for the sake of clarity I'm including in that category 2 7-9 records, 1 8-8 record, and 1 9-7 record.....In the NFL, if you're right at 500, the only people who think you've been terrible are the blinded fans.

By comparison sake, they played two "easy" games....4-12 record and a 5-11 record. OK, by NFL standards, these guys probably should be beat in most situations. And two "very easy" games....both 2-14 records. Again, by NFL good/bad standads, these guys should probably lose in most games. But the thing to consider, is that they DID win 2 games against other NFL teams...."Any given Sunday."
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#1975054 - 11/07/14 03:10 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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Well you clearly have more time on your hands than I do. I commend your research.

However, you forgot one stat:
Playoff wins and losses:

11-12
18-8

Who belongs to which record?
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#1975061 - 11/07/14 03:21 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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#1975087 - 11/07/14 03:45 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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This is fun. But to get back to the more with less question...dating back to 2001 (the first year Brady started):

All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 30
All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 44

Who belonged to which better team?
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#1975091 - 11/07/14 03:49 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition TB 12
burkemi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
Well you clearly have more time on your hands than I do. I commend your research.

However, you forgot one stat:
Playoff wins and losses:

11-12
18-8

Who belongs to which record?



I didn't forget; and the answer is very simple and commonly known.

That's easy.....11-12 belongs to Indianapolis/Denver
................18-8 belongs to New England

All to often the line between who is better (the player) and who is better (the team) become blurred. Show me how Tom Brady has won 18 playoff games without the full backing of the entire New England team, and I'll gladly and humbly step back. But unless he has not only played HIS POSITION of QB, but has also made every single line block, ran every rush, caught every pass, kicked every extra point and field goal, rushed/sacked the opposing QB, shed OL blocks, wrecked havock with tackles for loss, partook in every pass deflection, caught every interception...................Then to say that Tom Brady won those games is ludicrous. The question posed at the very begining wasn't who had played on the better teams; the question wasn't even who is the better QB; the original question was simply, who is your favorite of the 2.

The single greatest variable in the Manning/Brady rivalry isn't receivers, tight ends, running backs, O Line, Def.....The single greated factor is Bill Belicheck. His may be the greatest football mind since Lombardi.

And I appreciate your commendation on my research. It was done at home during my spare time.
Last edited by burkemi; 11/07/14 04:00 PM.
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#1975094 - 11/07/14 03:50 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition Bobby Boucher
burkemi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Boucher
This is fun. But to get back to the more with less question...dating back to 2001 (the first year Brady started):

All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 30
All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 44

Who belonged to which better team?


Interesting.....and I actually don't know the answer. Please tell!
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#1975103 - 11/07/14 03:57 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
Peepers Offline
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scrunchies wrapped around his left wrist, which belongs to whom?

five

zero
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#1975109 - 11/07/14 03:58 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
Bobby Boucher Offline
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Originally Posted By: burkemi
Originally Posted By: Bobby Boucher
This is fun. But to get back to the more with less question...dating back to 2001 (the first year Brady started):

All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 30
All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 44

Who belonged to which better team?


Interesting.....and I actually don't know the answer. Please tell!

30 belongs to the Colts/Broncos, 44 belongs to the team that obviously had less talent for the QB to work with.
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#1975115 - 11/07/14 04:01 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition Bobby Boucher
burkemi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Boucher
Originally Posted By: burkemi
Originally Posted By: Bobby Boucher
This is fun. But to get back to the more with less question...dating back to 2001 (the first year Brady started):

All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 30
All-Pro selections (not counting QB) 44

Who belonged to which better team?


Interesting.....and I actually don't know the answer. Please tell!

30 belongs to the Colts/Broncos, 44 belongs to the team that obviously had less talent for the QB to work with.


I figured that's where you were going.....but I really didn't know which side of the Manning/Brady fence you were on.
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#1975116 - 11/07/14 04:03 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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#1975128 - 11/07/14 04:15 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
Bobby Boucher Offline
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Originally Posted By: burkemi
I figured that's where you were going.....but I really didn't know which side of the Manning/Brady fence you were on.

Love Peyton, but as I said before, I'm not set on being able to call him the better quarterback and feel I could easily make the argument in favor of Brady. Really, I think they are just that close. And I think the team success should tip the scale in favor of Brady.

I just cannot understand the logic of suggesting that Brady has done more with less.
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#1975141 - 11/07/14 04:23 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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I like Brady more than Peyton because Manning was mad at his own crowd for making noise. I dont buy his story that he was mad at the scoreboard operator.

Also he has a fetushead.
Last edited by Stupendous Man; 11/07/14 04:23 PM.
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#1975144 - 11/07/14 04:26 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
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And he cusses at little kids. Oh wait...that was funny.
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#1975146 - 11/07/14 04:26 PM Re: Manning vs Brady. 16th edition burkemi
Bobby Boucher Offline
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That's another good point. Brady's teams have even had better scoreboard operators.

laugh
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