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#1976469 - 11/14/14 05:09 PM Suburbs biggest problems still not well known.
buggs Offline
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I recently found a blog named "Strong Towns." It has opened my eyes regarding some of the biggest problems being faced by the public as suburbia ages. Suburbs were built without any real thought for the future. They are just a place to live away from urban areas, but close enough to commute to urban areas to work. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but have we now painted ourselves into a corner? Perhaps, unless we start rethinking our suburbs.

If you're into community development or if you're a CRA professional, this is a blog you should be following.

http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2014/11/12/the-death-of-second-ring-suburbs

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#1976509 - 11/14/14 06:10 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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I don't think community development (especially if you are a CRA professional) means what you think it means.
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#1976554 - 11/14/14 07:49 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. Pale Rider
buggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
I don't think community development (especially if you are a CRA professional) means what you think it means.

Then you're not thinking fourth dimensionally, Pale. Broaden your horizons, my friend.

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#1976584 - 11/14/14 08:50 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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Yeah, Pale. Drop a tab first.
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#1976591 - 11/14/14 08:58 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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Good article, Buggs. We have a suburb near here that was anchored by a mall, like the town in the article, and commercial sprawl all round it. The housing in the town is mostly post-war ranch homes, rapidly aging, and a bunch of apartment complexes. Traffic is always a mess in by the mall, and the mall has seen better days, and with Amazon and e-commerce, who goes to the mall? You can't walk or bike anywhere in town because the roads don't have room for it.
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#1976921 - 11/17/14 08:50 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
buggs Offline
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Right on, MBH. This is the piper that suburbia is now having to pay. Short sighted planners who are still stuck in the 1950s and believe that their jobs are just about moving automobile traffic.

Pale, where this ties in to CD and CRA is that our blighted and destitute inner and second ring suburban communities in metropolitan areas have no hope of rising above the poverty level until these problems are addressed. Some folks are moving back into the urban areas, but that won't help the suburbs.

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#1976928 - 11/17/14 09:05 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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It is nice that once again someone (the article and not a comment on one or any BOL posters) pointed out the obvious (that local politicians can not figure out) with out a solution other than change.
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#1976940 - 11/17/14 09:20 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
I think one city that I'm familiar with that has this nailed is Ft. Worth, TX. They have taken a downtown area that had seen better days, and created a mixed use area...offices, restaurants, apartments, condos, performing arts center, theater, outdoor market, public square...as well as many other things.
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#1976941 - 11/17/14 09:23 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: buggs
where this ties in to CD and CRA is that our blighted and destitute inner and second ring suburban communities in metropolitan areas have no hope of rising above the poverty level until these problems are addressed. Some folks are moving back into the urban areas, but that won't help the suburbs.


but, until city leaders wake up and approve changes, there is no CD or CRA option. From the article, I can't believe they were concerned with "additional traffic" and "not a Minnetonkan value" as reasons not to approve. Drawings looked great, and bringing back business to an area that has none seems like a no-brainer to me. Seems like soemthing cities today should be seeking out, not avaoiding.
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#1976988 - 11/17/14 11:45 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. HappyGilmore
buggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
I think one city that I'm familiar with that has this nailed is Ft. Worth, TX. They have taken a downtown area that had seen better days, and created a mixed use area...offices, restaurants, apartments, condos, performing arts center, theater, outdoor market, public square...as well as many other things.

True, cities are taking steps to revitalize their urban cores, but the suburban governments are busy perpetuating their problems by repeating the actions that have caused the problems in the first place. As tax revenue goes down, they must try to milk other sources for revenue. Sometimes the quickest way to do that is through traffic tickets. Unfortunately, this creates the most burden for low income people and causes them to sink even lower. Which in turn does not solve the revenue problems and even makes them worse.

There can be community development opportunities if bankers will take the initiative and begin trying to bring people together. Government is not doing it. The community groups are too busy fighting with each other or protecting their turfs. Forward thinking bankers are finally in a position to be true leaders. That is, if we are willing to wake up to the opportunities and take a longer look down the road past out next scheduled examination.
Last edited by buggs; 11/17/14 11:46 PM.
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#1977038 - 11/18/14 02:50 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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Poverty causes bad driving?
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#1977048 - 11/18/14 03:05 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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The new income maker for our area is Tickets as Buggs stated. New "Destracted Driver" ordinance. Cell Phone, Drinking, eating, etc. $149 per pop. Last month the city wrote 849 tickets. Cha Ching!!
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#1977051 - 11/18/14 03:11 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: buggs
There can be community development opportunities if bankers will take the initiative and begin trying to bring people together. Government is not doing it. The community groups are too busy fighting with each other or protecting their turfs. Forward thinking bankers are finally in a position to be true leaders. That is, if we are willing to wake up to the opportunities and take a longer look down the road past out next scheduled examination.


While i agree in theory, in practice it is another animal. If a government is not willing to change, nothing that a banker, or anyone else in the community, does will get past that hurdle. If you need government approval for building, and they won't issue it, then all effort to that point is wasted. Not sure about where you work, but in my world Bankers and not big on wasted time and effort with no return.

In NO, many bankers serve on various groups, there is a technology group that procurred numerous businesses to move to the city, there is a group that worked to get a new VA Medical center built. But trying to get funds for building low cost housing, government wanted nothing to do with that.
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#1977228 - 11/18/14 07:39 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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I understand, Happy. I get the same defeatist reaction in my areas too. We get what we settle for, I guess.

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#1977232 - 11/18/14 07:46 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Not sure I would call it a defeatist reaction...if the powers that be hold the final say, and their final say is no, i would call it a realist reaction rather than defeatist.

I'll phrase another way...when a young lad, my family had several cars, but with 7 kids, until we bought our own car, you were at the mercy of one of the 3 family cars. 2 of these were sedans, and one was a conversion van. if you had a date, you were restricted to a sedan, the van (with the plush leather sofa/bed in the back) was off limits. You could ask my dad week in and week out to use the van for a date if the other cars were taken, but the answer was always going to be no. At some point, we all realized asking was futile if a date was planned...his cars, his rules.

their town, their rules...
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#1977234 - 11/18/14 07:51 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
buggs Offline
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The powers that be can be influenced if we try. That's what I mean by leadership.
Last edited by buggs; 11/18/14 07:52 PM.
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#1977236 - 11/18/14 07:52 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
edAudit Online
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They call that bribery
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#1977242 - 11/18/14 07:58 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
buggs Offline
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Ed, you're making a joke, right?

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#1977247 - 11/18/14 08:04 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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If you say so.

If the people who live there do not want it (NIMBY)and the pols do not want to fight for it a simple banker has no recourse.
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#1977248 - 11/18/14 08:03 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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tilting at windmills
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#1977339 - 11/18/14 10:28 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. edAudit
buggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: edAudit
If you say so.

If the people who live there do not want it (NIMBY)and the pols do not want to fight for it a simple banker has no recourse.


True. A person who only wants to be a banker has no recourse, but let's be honest. That is by choice, not by fate.

If they don't want it, then they don't. But there are plenty of communities who *do* want it. Why did you even bring that up?

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#1977340 - 11/18/14 10:29 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. Sound Tactic
buggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sound Tactic
tilting at windmills

I take it you're one of those "simple bankers" Ed mentions?

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#1977439 - 11/19/14 04:07 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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Let the free market decides these things. Big government is bad government.
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#1977443 - 11/19/14 04:15 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
edAudit Online
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Originally Posted By: buggs
Originally Posted By: edAudit
If you say so.

If the people who live there do not want it (NIMBY)and the pols do not want to fight for it a simple banker has no recourse.


True. A person who only wants to be a banker has no recourse, but let's be honest. That is by choice, not by fate.

If they don't want it, then they don't. But there are plenty of communities who *do* want it. Why did you even bring that up?


I live in an area where whenever a proposal for development is suggested it is swiftly canned and met with protest(unless it is another shopping center or strip mall)
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#1977477 - 11/19/14 05:16 PM Re: Suburbs biggest problems still not well known. buggs
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: buggs
The powers that be can be influenced if we try. That's what I mean by leadership.


i'm guessing you don't have much experience dealing with entrenched city leaders who are set in their ways. or worse, vote solely along political or racial lines, which prevents any type of progress that benefits the city and the people who live there.
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