A runner makes a cash deposit into the IOLTA account for a law firm. The tax ID number is the Florida Bar Association number. So do I use the law firm's tax ID number or the Bar Association's number?

Thank you.

You actually need to know the attorney's client information that gave them the cash, as that is on who's behave the money was deposited.

So we wouldn't include the law firm at all?

If the funds are deposited to the IOLTA account of the firm, you'll provide information on the firm. If it's deposited to the IOLTA account of an individual attorney, you'll include information on that attorney. In both cases, though, you will also need to report information on the client of the law firm or attorney for whom the law firm or attorney is holding the funds.

So the CTR should include three Part I entries. One for the individual bringing in the transactions; one for the law firm or attorney into whose IOLTA account the funds are being deposited; one for the client of the law firm or of the attorney.

John,

We had total of $20,700 cash deposited into the IOLTA account. $2,900 cash was deposited at branch #1 and $17,800 cash was deposted at branch #2. So do we need to request information on client who benefited over $10,000 in cash? I'm thinking there may be multiple clients involved who probably didn't go over the threshold amount.

Thank you

Oh my!

Assuming that the $17,800 deposited at branch #2 was brought in by one conductor, you'll need to provide information on any of the firm's clients on whose behalf that $17,800 was deposited, because the transaction was made by a single individual. You will not need information on the clients on whose behalf the $2,900 cash was deposited at branch #1 unless the same conductor went to both branches.

Thank you

You're welcome. I almost thought you were adding another "what if?" and my mind was about to explode!

Admin Ruling 89-5, example 3, is your primer. The attorney may get excited about disclosing "confidential client information." Point out that if an individual client was responsible for more than $10,000 of the cash, the law required the attorney to report it on Form 8300.

Just a point of confusion on the Form 8300. Here is the part of the instructions that is making me question whether or not the law firm would have to file since they've brought the money to the bank.

Voluntary use of Form 8300. Form 8300 may be filed voluntarily for any suspicious transaction (see Definitions, later) for use by FinCEN and the IRS, even if the total amount does not exceed $10,000.
Exceptions. Cash is not required to be reported if it is received:
• By a financial institution required to file Form 104, Currency Transaction Report;

Is this exception referring to the fact that as a FI we use CTRs and we don't have to file 8300 or is it referring to a situation when the law firm in our case brings in the money and we're filing a CTR so they don't have to file 8300?

You don't file 8300 because you're a financial institution so you file a CTR when you receive the cash.

The law firm is NOT a finanical instituition so it DOES file 8300 when it receives the cash from a client regardless of whether it takes the cash to deposit into an IOLTA or it keeps the cash in a shoe box under someone's desk in the office.

Thanks. One more followup regarding IOLTAs. If the law firm brings in over $10,000 for more than one client but none of the clients individual amounts exceeded $10,000, how do we report? Just the law firm and the runner that brought in the deposit?

Pushed send before I meant to, but I'm pretty sure it should be reported with just the law firm and the person conducting based on the previous posts, but just wanted to confirm! Thanks.

Unless there's a FinCEN ruling on this (I'm not aware of one), you'd treat this just as you would the case of an individual bringing in three cash deposits totaling over $10,000 on behalf of three different persons -- you file one CTR reporting on the one conductor and each of the three persons on whose behalf the deposits were made.

That's a reasonable conclusion. An opinion from the Helpline would trump John's & my agreement.

I'd like to get a little clarification on this subject if possible. When completing a Part 1 for the law firm itself, which box would you check for number 2? Would it be a person conducting transaction for another or person on whose behalf a transaction was conducted?

A law firm cannot physically bring in cash so you would check box 2c, "Person on whose behalf a transaction was conducted." The individual who carried the cash through the door would be box 2b, "Person conducting transaction on behalf of another."

Thank you so much!

You are probably tired of beating on this horse but if I'm understanding your posts correctly, if an individual brings in a cash deposit for an attorney for deposit to an IOLTA account, the bank files a CTR (I get that) with the name of the person bringing in the deposit as the conductor on behalf of the attorney, the attorney's information and then we are suppose to get information from the person conducting the transaction as to who the money is being held for by the attorney?

Yes. The monies belong to the attorney's customer so you need their information.

Okay, so we know then what we are suppose to be collecting to complete that CTR. How many banks are collecting that information from the attorney? What if there are 15 different clients?
This is something that I've let slip through and we have not been asking for it but I doubt that our teller would be able to obtain that information from the clerk or runner who brought in that deposit. Fortunately we don't have it happen often that an IOLTA account had more than $10,000 in cash deposited.

Fortunately we don't have it happen often that an IOLTA account had more than $10,000 in cash deposited.

I think that is basically always the case.

I have recommended to more than one bank that has had to address this exact scenario that their teller should refer the matter to a supervisor who can speak with the runner (who may be an attorney in the law firm or a paralegal or secretary) about the requirements of the CTR. A call can be made to the law office to the get the particulars of the client(s) whose cash is being deposited. Without the client information, I have suggested to the banks that they refuse the deposit.

In one case the attorney involved protested that providing the information would violate attorney-client privilege. I suggested that the bank cite the regulatory requirement for the CTR and the provision for penalties for anyone causing the filing of a CTR with incomplete violation, along with a suggestion that the information requested didn't fall under the attorney-client privilege in the first place.

I have another question and it may need to go else where but it is CTR related. Bank customer is a Lottery Ticket Redemption Agent. Rules for agent is that they can redeem up to $5,000 tickets, a form is completed with all the information on the winner and authorization # is received from state lottery office. If the redemption agent is paying multiple tickets to same person and it's over $10,000, do they have to file a CTR?

In Tennessee????

Claiming a Tennessee Lottery prize is simple. A winning ticket must be presented in order to receive your prize.
•Sign the back of your ticket.

•Any prize with a value of less than $600, including free tickets, can be claimed at any participating retailer or Lottery district office or by mail (see below).

•Any prize ranging from $600 to $199,999 must be claimed at any of the Tennessee Lottery's district offices including the Lottery's headquarters or by mail.

•Any prize with a value of $200,000 or above must be claimed at the Lottery’s headquarters in Nashville.