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#1988408 - 01/13/15 07:34 PM Doc fee disclosed as filing fee
time flies when you're having fun Offline
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we purchase Dealer paper and have identified an audto dealer who has improperly disclosed a doc fee (which is limited by state law and charged to all consumers who buy a vehicle regardless of whether they get credit) as a filing fee. This fee should have been separately listed as a documentation fee paid to the Dealer. Although the fee was not properly disclosed, I am thinking the improper disclosure does not trigger reimbursement since the fee is not a finance charge (because it is charged to those who receive credit and those who do not). The incorrect classification of the fee is a violation but is not a reimburseable violation. Am I viewing this correctly? Thanks for your insight.

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#1988430 - 01/13/15 08:02 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
I would agree but I would also advise issuing a revised TIL showing the accurate charges in their rightful place. The amount shown as filing fees that are not actual filing fees or that are not otherwise exempt in that category would trigger the excess being a finance charge.

Issuing the revised TIL would eliminate any confusion on an auditor or examiner's part.
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The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

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#1988438 - 01/13/15 08:12 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
time flies when you're having fun Offline
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Thank you Dan. And if the amount charged exceeded the state max? I believe any amount over the state max must be refunded because of the state law, but doesn't create any additional TILA exposure. Do you agree?

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#1988440 - 01/13/15 08:14 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
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We would in this case refund the amount that exceeded the state max and redisclose the correct doc fee and correct filing fee on a corrected TIL. Do you agree with this approach?

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#1988441 - 01/13/15 08:15 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
I'm not familiar with the type fee you are referring to but if the amount is limited by state law and that amount is exceeded then IMO you have a reimbursable state law violation.
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The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

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#1988535 - 01/13/15 11:10 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
time flies when you're having fun Offline
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Thank you Dan, your perspective is always much appreciated.

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#1988536 - 01/13/15 11:12 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee Dan Persfull
rlcarey Online
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rlcarey
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Galveston, TX
Originally Posted By: Dan Persfull
I'm not familiar with the type fee you are referring to but if the amount is limited by state law and that amount is exceeded then IMO you have a reimbursable state law violation.


You might have more than that if this is covered under a treble damages clause in State law.

You really need to be talking to your legal counsel.
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The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

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#1994365 - 02/06/15 11:21 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
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Thank you for your help Randy. I have another "back to the basics" Reg Z question related to Dealer loans. State law requires that a dealer doc prep fee be separately itemized on the sales agreement. However as it relates to the TIL disclosure, since the doc prep fee is charged to cash and credit clients, it is not a finance charge. I am thinking then that the fee is not required to be separately itemized on the TIL, but rather could be included in the total amount paid to the dealership, correct? Other dealer fees such as prepaid service (basic maintenance), storage, freight, environmental (paint sealant) charges may also be rolled into the amount paid to the Dealer on the TIL, and would not need to be itemized correct?

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#1994392 - 02/07/15 01:15 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
rlcarey Online
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Galveston, TX
You are talking about direct lending or buying indirect paper? In a direct lending transaction, the itemization would reflect a check being cut to the dealer. What they may or may not be charging the borrower has no impact on your itemization of amount financed.
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The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

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#1994405 - 02/08/15 10:20 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
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It's indirect paper Randy. So dealer charges a variety of fees as mentioned above including a doc fee, storage, maintenance, freight, etc.

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#1995561 - 02/12/15 02:59 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
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So, here's an example -- Dealer loan purchased by bank:

Boat price 10,000
freight $1,000
storage $200
service contract with dealer $500
filing fees $49
documentation fee $75 (also paid in cash transaction, not a FC)
For a total of $11824

Is the following itemization compliant, or is further breakdown in the itemization required by Reg Z?

$11,275 vehicle price
$500 service contract to XYZ (Dealer may retain a portion)
$49 to public officials

Thank you so much for your help. It's nearly Friday...

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#1995825 - 02/12/15 10:56 PM Re: Doc fee disclosed as filing fee time flies when you're having fun
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anyone...anyone...Bueller...Bueller?

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