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#1998122 - 02/25/15 04:26 PM Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them
compliancemap Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 59
Hello,

We have a customer undergoing an IRS audit and it is not going well judging by our customers recent interactions with the bank. Now, the customer is asking us to tell them how many Currency Transaction Reports we have filed involving them. Our decision was to let the customer know that we are unable to do that, but we can supply them with the information on when a CTR is filed (the CTR informational piece by fincen) and if they are willing to pay a research fee, we will research cash transactions over the threshold.

Would anyone handle this differently (for example tell them how many CTR's were filed or some other way)? Would any one consider this suspicious?

Thanks in advance for your responses, much appreciated. I did do a search brior to posting my question, but was unable to find a similar topic.

Thanks!

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#1998174 - 02/25/15 06:40 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
MagicCity Offline

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MagicCity
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,003
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
I see no problem in supplying it.
Our CTR program would provide the information by date range so there would be no research involved.
I would not consider it suspicious.

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#1998201 - 02/25/15 07:48 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
ACBbank Offline
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ACBbank
Joined: Jul 2006
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New York City
I would not be willing to provide such information. I wouldn't want to get involved in a legal battle between your customer and the IRS.
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#1998212 - 02/25/15 08:02 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
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Cape Cod
The customer could drag you into it with a subpoena. Why not be helpful and provide the info, either for no charge, if it's very readily retrieved, or for your standard research fee, if research is needed? If it develops into a request for copies, that starts getting expensive, and should be charged for.
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#1998217 - 02/25/15 08:08 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
thomasj Offline
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Posts: 5,063
Pennsylvania
I would tend to argue that the CTR is not a record of their account but rather a bank record and would want to have a subpoena to back up the request. From experience I can tell you that very likely the next question after the number of reports filed will be "We want copies of the reports". This could get sticky if there is conductor or beneficiary information other than that of the customer requesting the information. If they were to re-word their request to ask how many cash transactions in excess of $10,000 were made over a given period of time, I would see no problem providing that information and charging them whatever research fees apply.
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#1998250 - 02/25/15 09:49 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
ACBbank Offline
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ACBbank
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,344
New York City
I'd rather have the subpoena to be quite honest John. I would agree with Thomas that a CTR is a Bank record and I see no reason to supply it a customer unless compelled to do so.
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"100 victories in 100 battles isnt the most skillful. Subduing the other's military w/o battle is the most skillful." Sun-Tzu

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#1998257 - 02/25/15 09:56 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
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Cape Cod
I can accept that logic.
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#1998415 - 02/26/15 05:54 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
compliancemap Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 59
Thanks for everyones replies. I could have elaborated a little on the customer's behavior. We have allowed them to use our conference room for their IRS meetings. The customer gets beligerant and acts very inappopriately in the lobby, with gestures.

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#1998436 - 02/26/15 06:28 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
edAudit Offline
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edAudit
Joined: Jul 2008
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You are here
Originally Posted By: compliancemap
Thanks for everyones replies. I could have elaborated a little on the customer's behavior. We have allowed them to use our conference room for their IRS meetings. The customer gets beligerant and acts very inappopriately in the lobby, with gestures.


And this is not an ex-customer?
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#1998632 - 02/27/15 01:46 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
I'm thinking the customer can go back and determine how many CTRs were filed as easily as you can by reviewing their statements and counting their large cash transactions. (I understand they may not get them all if they have been "same day" structuring.) Either way, that one's a "No."

If a customer wanted copies of CTR's I would equate it to giving him a copy of a 1099INT, no biggee. They would pay for the research and copying, in advance.

However, your comment about the customer's behavior trumps everything. Show him the gate. Reconsider whether its a good idea to let customers use a conference room for their personal purposes.
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#1998885 - 02/27/15 07:12 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
tmtz Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12
This won't help your situation, but...

Several years ago we had a customer who was facing an IRS audit. They claimed that she had deposited over a hundred thousand dollars and were demanding to know the source of the funds and why she didn't claim it as income. She provided bank statements showing she never made such deposits. They told her they could prove it because of the forms the bank filed when she made the deposits. They provided her with dates and amounts of the cash deposits.

Eventually we got involved. We never gave her copies of the CTRs, but the agent conducting the investigation finally contacted me and I had to explain to him that he was reading the forms incorrectly. She did make those cash deposits, but she was not the beneficiary of the cash, she was simply the person conducting the transactions. The deposits were made for her employer, a local truck stop. The agent expained that he never saw the actual report, only lines of data. Either way, they realized their error and it all went away.

I wonder how much all of that cost.

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#1998887 - 02/27/15 07:14 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them tmtz
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Elwood P. Dowd
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Next to Harvey
Very, very nice contribution.
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In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

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#1998898 - 02/27/15 07:28 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
Princess Romeo Offline

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Princess Romeo
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Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
And we wonder why people don't want to provide their ID and SSN when they are making cash deposits for their employer.
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#1998976 - 02/27/15 09:18 PM Re: Customer asking how many CTR's we filed for them compliancemap
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
Same song, different verse. We had a customer who gave us a copy of a CTR "transcript" from the IRS that reflected his SSN. He wanted to know how it was that we were reporting he made cash deposits in reportable amounts when he didn't even have an account with us. Turns out, his SSN is the same as the EIN for a corporation that did bank with us. We had thought the IRS and SSA didn't dip into the same number wells. A check of both agencies connfirmed the only difference was the spacing and the dash in the EIN. Neither spacing nor dashes make it into a CTR, so the coincidence resulted in that poor guy having to convince the IRS to check its own records to confirm the number sequece also belonged to the business.
Last edited by John Burnett; 02/27/15 09:19 PM.
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