Thread Options
|
#200195 - 06/14/04 09:32 PM
Midnight Definition
|
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,048
Dallas, TX
|
LEGALLY speaking does midnight end the day or begin it (i.e. is MIDNIGHT June 14th the start or close of today)?
_________________________
"Remember no man is a failure who has friends." - Clarence (the Angel) Oddbody - It's a Wonderful Life
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200196 - 06/14/04 09:46 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I am just guessing, but I would think 11:59:59 would be the last second of a day and 12:00:00 midnight would be "zero" starting the next day.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200197 - 06/14/04 10:14 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I would say that midnight ends the day. For example it would be midnight on Monday, June 14th ending the day of the 14th. But another way of looking at it is Alpha and the Omega.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200198 - 06/14/04 10:23 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 10,180
Toano, VA
|
Why is this question relevant to lending compliance? Since you aren't open during that part of the day, isn't it a moot point?
_________________________
...gone fishing.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200200 - 06/15/04 12:33 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,991
Soaring over Georgia
|
Well if they fax a rescission notice at exactly midnight of the 3rd business day, then I'm going to recommend to my bank that we honor the rescission. Heck, I'd probably recommend we honor it even if they fax it at 12:01am on the 4th business day. Their clock may not be set exactly with yours.
_________________________
Jim Bedsole, CRCM, CBA, CFSA, CAFP My posts - my opinions
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200201 - 06/15/04 12:48 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Midnight is a point in time. On a timeline, it has a width of 0, just like a point on a line or plane. Midnight is the moment when days change, it is not part of either day. Nor is it between days. The second between midnight and 12:00:01 is a line segment on a timeline, but that entire second is not midnight.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200203 - 06/28/04 07:17 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,048
Dallas, TX
|
The question was raised based on the phrasing on our doc's re: signing the Right of Rescision. The doc's read, "do so no sooner than midnight on..." I had always been taught that midnight begins the day (hence the change to AM), but the general consensus is midnight (12:00:00) ends the day & 12:00:01 begins the day (e.g. when you count, you don't start w/zero, but w/one). My concern is, if midnight begins the day, then we weren't allowing for 3 full biz days.
_________________________
"Remember no man is a failure who has friends." - Clarence (the Angel) Oddbody - It's a Wonderful Life
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200204 - 06/28/04 08:19 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Midnight both begins and ends the day. Midnight is a point where the previous day ends and the following day begins. It belongs to neither day.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200206 - 06/28/04 08:43 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,048
Dallas, TX
|
Here's the entire scenario: Cust signs ROR on Wed (3 biz days in our case would be Thurs, Fri & Sat) - hence, the non-cancellation verbiage reads "sign no sooner than midnight Sat, Mmm/DD/CCYY." - cust signs @ 1 AM (i.e. after 12:00 AM) on Sat morning & then comes strolling into the bank @ 10 AM - we cut cashiers check to client on Sat - even though the item won't process 'til Mon's biz day, cust rcvs funds on Sat before end of 3 day ROR ends - potentially, the client could come back 6 mos later & say we didn't allow them the req'd 3 days & thus extend their ROR for 3 yrs - yes??? so, when the doc verbiage refers to "midnight," is that when the clock changes to 12:00 AM early Sat morning or 12:00 AM late Sat night?
_________________________
"Remember no man is a failure who has friends." - Clarence (the Angel) Oddbody - It's a Wonderful Life
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200208 - 06/28/04 09:32 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,048
Dallas, TX
|
we haven't actually done this (yet), but I'm attempting to prevent it & I'm afraid without a LEGAL definition of when "midnight" begins our non-cancellation verbiage is vague at best - so I guess I'll be contacting our regulator & see if I can have them define it one way or the other
_________________________
"Remember no man is a failure who has friends." - Clarence (the Angel) Oddbody - It's a Wonderful Life
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#200209 - 06/28/04 09:33 PM
Re: Midnight Definition
|
Gold Star
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 455
|
Quote:
potentially, the client could come back 6 mos later & say we didn't allow them the req'd 3 days & thus extend their ROR for 3 yrs - yes???
Yup. Three full business days had not transpired. This is a VERY risky practice.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
|