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#2003268 - 03/23/15 02:49 PM Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID
Rdy2Retire Offline
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GA Mountains
At a recent seminar, the question was asked where Intangible Tax and GRMA would be disclosed in the LE and CD. The speaker (who was not from GA) stated Intangible Tax would go in the Recording Fee section in the LE rather than in Transfer Tax section as we disclose today. In looking at the CFPB's guidance, I don't think this is correct. I think Intangible Tax will still go in Transfer Tax in the LE and then be itemized on a separate line in the CD. Same question that we had back in 2010 - what to do with GRMA. Recording Fee section of the LE and then itemized (and spelled out) in the CD?? Agree? Disagree?

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#2003279 - 03/23/15 03:12 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
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#2003281 - 03/23/15 03:12 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
WT?? Why are my replies vanishing? Let me try this again....




If it is the same seminar that I attended, that answer was ammended in discussion later on when a few people pointed out to the speaker that Intangible Tax is based on the loan amount and should therefore go in with the Transfer Tax just like we do now.


ETA: I had to cut out the quote from the reg's commentary to make my post show up, but that answer is based on the comment for 1026.37(g)(1)(3).
Last edited by RR Becca; 03/23/15 03:14 PM.
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#2003287 - 03/23/15 03:27 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
Rdy2Retire Offline
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GA Mountains
Thanks RR Becca. Where are you going to disclose GRMA?

Vanishing posts - look at my post in the Integrated Disclosure section titled "Calculating the TIP" and you will see how to correct the problem. Only problem is in this GA section, I couldn't find how to enable the HTML - there is nothing in the drop down below for me to choose. So am afraid to copy and past the link ricarey gave me here as am afraid it won't show up.

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#2003289 - 03/23/15 03:30 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Becca Offline
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RR Becca
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out of the frying pan...
I couldn't make it change to HTML, either. smile

I think we're going to put GRMA in the recording fees. Since it is a flat fee I can't really see an argument for doing it any other way, but I am very curious to see where RRJoker weighs in on the issue.
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#2003299 - 03/23/15 03:38 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
rlcarey Offline
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Galveston, TX
They apparently don't have to UBB and HTML option in the state forums yet to allow cut and paste.
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#2004110 - 03/25/15 08:54 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Joker Offline
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The Swamp
I say recording fee. I'll try to run a test purchase loan tomorrow and see where it decides to fall. I've only run a simple refi so far because I am just getting my enviornments set up.
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#2004367 - 03/26/15 06:18 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Joker Offline
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Okay, in my system, Intangible tax (specifically) is a FL only fee. City/County Taxes is where Georgia "intangibles" go and it is hardcoded as a transfer tax.

GRMA I had to pick...there was only one real logical place to put it and I totally agree with the placement of 'recording and other government fees' as that is exactly what it is.
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#2004940 - 03/30/15 03:12 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Joker Offline
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Definitely recording for the reason Becca states above (flat fee).

2. Other government charges. Any charges or fees imposed by a State or local government that are not transfer taxes are aggregated with recording fees and disclosed under ยง 1026.37(g)(1)(i).
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#2005648 - 04/01/15 07:19 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
Rdy2Retire Offline
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GA Mountains
Thanks RR Becca and RR Joker! May I ask how you all handle your release fee? We have always collected up-front for the fee to release our security deed down the road. Just trying to figure out how a release fee will be disclosed on the CD.

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#2005687 - 04/01/15 08:20 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Joker Offline
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Oh you don't even want to get started with THAT discussion.

Simply put....I hope you currently and going forward include it in your origination charge as a cost of business. There really IS nowhere else for it to go as it has not one thing to do with the loan you make today and you really don't likely want to do what would be necessary from an accounting standpoint to do it any other way.
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#2005775 - 04/02/15 01:33 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
Yeah, that discussion is a bit of a sore point. So far I've lost the argument with management every time. We currently show it in recording fees and I object, loudly, every single time somebody asks about it.

ETA: the argument I'm up against is "we've always done it that way and haven't gotten in any trouble for it yet." :sigh:
Last edited by RR Becca; 04/02/15 01:34 PM.
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#2006173 - 04/03/15 07:07 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Joker Offline
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It's a hard thing to find since you typically see 'release fees' associated with the prior owner...so I would imagine it's just us knowing what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'.

I just have an easier time winning arguments here (or just changing the process because I said so) laugh

But, then I digress...that's just one small pin in the haystack.
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#2006231 - 04/03/15 09:26 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
Rdy2Retire Offline
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GA Mountains
Well...I submitted the question to my legal counsel who has been working on it for 2 months. When I asked today if he was any closer, he says it's just a complicated question. I went back and read Reg Z and the commentary and also looked in HUD's FAQ for RESPA and both talk about release fees, but I can't determine where we are getting the interpretation that the release fee mentioned in both places doesn't mean the release fee for the future release of our security deed. (Would copy and past what I am talking about but we all know it won't show up here. :)) In Reg Z it is located, which I am sure you know,at 1026.4 (e). The HUD FAQ mentions release fees on page 56, I think it is. I haven't researched in the actual act/law. Is there somewhere else you can point me to that will state the release fee is talking about releasing of a security instrument that has to do with the loan being currently made and not for the release of our further deed? Know I am rambling...long day... Is there something in state law? I hope my attorney gets back to me on Monday as I will be on vacation for a week after that and would like to get this one out of the way! Thanks for your input!

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#2006267 - 04/04/15 03:43 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
rlcarey Offline
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Galveston, TX
If your release fee goes into an escrow type of account and is held for the payment of the release at the time of the loan pay-off, then you could exclude the fee under 1026.4, as the fee will be paid to a public official.

If you do not, i.e., you just take the fee into income, it is just a fee that would be considered a finance charge as it only offsets some future cost to the bank and the monies are not and will not be paid to a public official.

The consistent reconciliation of this escrow account is the nightmare that Joker was referring too.
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#2006317 - 04/06/15 02:24 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
Rdy2Retire Offline
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GA Mountains
Thanks Randy.

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#2007527 - 04/10/15 07:50 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Joker Offline
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The Swamp
And it's just flat not worth the time it would take over a $12.00 fee to discount it from a finance charge. (IMHO)
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#2010934 - 04/29/15 02:42 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RVFlyboy Offline
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Soaring over Georgia
Did I miss it somewhere - what is everyone's take on whether the GRMA is a 0% tolerance or a 10% tolerance fee?
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#2011211 - 04/30/15 02:15 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
I say 10% since it goes in with the recording fees and not the transfer taxes.
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#2011215 - 04/30/15 02:23 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RVFlyboy Offline
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Thanks, Becca.
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#2011272 - 04/30/15 04:04 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Becca Offline
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RR Becca
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out of the frying pan...
Honestly, I had not even thought about it from a tolerance standpoint until you asked. We know it's always $10. (I'm practicing leaving off those pesky zeros behind the decimal when it's a whole number wink )
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#2011621 - 05/01/15 05:56 PM Re: Intangible Tax, GRMA & TRID Rdy2Retire
RR Joker Offline
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The Swamp
Yes, it 10% (recording tolerance)
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