Thread Options
#2005723 - 04/01/15 09:26 PM Apple ITunes transactions disputed
CAKE Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 25
I have a similar post to another recent one with Xbox, Google Play. I have had a number of disputed transactions regarding Apple ITunes. The latest one-customer finally decides to balance her statement since Nov. Has charges from Apple adding up to $2300 since then and says she didn't do them. She has kids and has given them her card to use but never for Apple purchases. Most of the transactions are under $25 so no chargeback rights. The transactions went thru the Visa network. Unsure of how the rules and regulations would dictate on issues such as these. I'm almost certain the customer participated and benefited from these transactions. Any help would be appreciated.

Return to Top
eBanking / Technology
#2005792 - 04/02/15 02:09 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
PrimeTime Offline
100 Club
PrimeTime
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 173
Depending on your cardholder agreement, wouldn't the fact that she openly stated that she has given her card to another individual(s) to use nullify her ability to dispute any items?

I know with ours the fact that they have given anyone else the ability to use their card means that they cannot dispute the items because they have breeched the contract that they signed.

I'm thinking the same way you are...she or her kids absolutely have participated in those transactions, and now that the bill has shown up they're hoping to get out of it. Is there any other fraud associated with the card? If not, that's a pretty clear indicator that she's lying, because the fraudsters wouldn't stop using the card after a certain amount, usually. So for example if this has been going on for months, and those are the only transactions on the card that she's disputing, it doesn't really add up. Just my thoughts.
_________________________
Life is like a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
-Albert Einstein

CAMS

Return to Top
#2005817 - 04/02/15 03:11 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
Derwood Offline
100 Club
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 179
No matter what you have in your cardholder agreement it cannot shift liability or relieve you of your duties under Reg E.

It does give you something to point to when you revoke or decline to reissue the access device but you would still need to follow Reg E and determine if it is a valid claim.
_________________________
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir

Return to Top
#2005820 - 04/02/15 03:15 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
BrianC Offline
Power Poster
BrianC
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,011
Illinois
Quote:
Depending on your cardholder agreement, wouldn't the fact that she openly stated that she has given her card to another individual(s) to use nullify her ability to dispute any items?


The fact that she gave her card to a third party does not prove that the third party performed the disputed transactions. I could give my card to my son and still have my card number compromised resulting in someone opening a fraudulent ITunes account. Based on previous enforcement actions, automatically denying a Reg E claim based on these facts alone could result in Reg E violations, UDAAP citations, CMPs and customer reimbursements.

Since no chargeback rights are available your options may be limited to trying to contact the merchant directly, interviews with the customer to try and determine if the children did establish ITunes accounts when she gave the card to them, or paying the claim. (and considering never giving the customer another card.)
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria!
www.tcaregs.com

Return to Top
#2006147 - 04/03/15 06:11 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
CAKE Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 25
Would saying this customer was negligent offer a basis for denying the dispute? I've tried calling Apple and they won't give information to anyone except the customer. I found another dispute for the same customer in 2013 also disputing transactions with Apple. Those transactions amounted to less than $200.

Return to Top
#2006149 - 04/03/15 06:14 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,333
Cape Cod
Customer negligence is NEVER a bases for denying a Regulation E claim. But you certainly have justification with the two similar claims for canceling their card(s) and refusing to reissue them,
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top
#2006195 - 04/03/15 08:00 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
CULady Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 493
WA
Have you tried to ask the customer to contact Apple? I recently had a similar case, not quite to that amount or timeframe, but we were able to get it all refunded only because the member called. I know you can't force them to do it, but it might not hurt to ask!

Good luck!

Return to Top
#2006262 - 04/04/15 02:58 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
MtnHiker Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 78
New England
Not sure how much it helps, but there may be some liability shift due to untimely notification for any transaction occurring more than 60 days after the first statement with unauthorized activity was delivered.
_________________________
Nothing I say should be considered legal advice or the opinion of my employer.

Return to Top
#2006368 - 04/06/15 04:18 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
Andy_Z Offline
10K Club
Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,348
On the Net
Cake, I'll invite you to register for my webinar as this is the type of issue we will discuss.

You have the answer above. You must investigate or pay. So you'll investigate. If the kids did it, it sounds like they abused the access they were granted and you shouldn't have to pay that claim.

You also need to advise the consumer about their liability and I have a calculator that will help you with those older transactions, based on when the statements were sent to the consumer.

There are lots of "if-thans" in this scenario.

http://www.calendarwiz.com/calendars/pop...ingconnect&
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

Return to Top
#2012578 - 05/06/15 08:06 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
dazzling Offline
New Poster
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3
I've been told you are responsible for the statement the transactions first appeared in and 60 days following. That would be November, December, January, but not necessarily anything after that. Would this apply here?
Last edited by pammon5; 05/06/15 08:06 PM.
Return to Top
#2014702 - 05/18/15 06:03 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
Andy_Z Offline
10K Club
Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,348
On the Net
Dazzling, I'm not sure who you mean as being responsible. But when you calculate liability under Reg E, the third tier is that the consumer is liable for related transactions that occur after 60 days after you send the first statement with the unauthorized EFT. So the bank and consumer do still need to know the timing of all the EFTs in question.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

Return to Top
#2185679 - 07/17/18 05:24 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
danyielg Offline
Gold Star
danyielg
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 392
OK
so, if this first appeared in May of 2017, I only have to include the months of June & July 2017? Even if the customer just told me in July of this year?

Return to Top
#2185716 - 07/17/18 06:51 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
P*Q Offline

Power Poster
P*Q
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,436
Somewhere
Yes

Return to Top
#2200286 - 12/10/18 11:13 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
Valley girl Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 282
TX
I have a grandmother who let her granddaughter load her debit card information into ITunes on the granddaughter's phone. Granddaughter's phone was lost/stolen and there are several Itunes charges they say aren't authorized. No police report has been or will be filed on the lost/stolen phone. Grandmother never told us that she had given the number to her granddaughter - so "authority" had never been revoked. Can I deny the dispute based on that? There are other ITunes charges on the account history, so I know granddaughter had been using the card number.

Return to Top
#2200359 - 12/11/18 07:01 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
burkemi Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 465
Look at this piece of Reg E:

m) “Unauthorized electronic fund transfer” means an electronic fund transfer from a consumer's account initiated by a person other than the consumer without actual authority to initiate the transfer and from which the consumer receives no benefit. The term does not include an electronic fund transfer initiated:
(1) By a person who was furnished the access device to the consumer's account by the consumer, unless the consumer has
notified the financial institution that transfers by that person are no longer authorized;

Grandmother allowed Granddaughter to use the card information - there ends the authority given. Granddaughter's phone was stolen, the person using the phone to make charges was never given authorization by Grandmother to use the information. Consider a different scenario...Grandmother gave Granddaughter the card. Granddaughter lost card. Now there are fraudulent transactions. Not a great deal of separation from your actual scenario to the hypothetical one.

No, you can't deny the claim based on those facts alone. You also can't require a police report on the phone.

Open your investigation and do your research. If you can determine that these are authorized by Granddaughter, that's a whole different ballgame. Good Luck!

Oh, and don't forget.... Whether you are able to deny the claim or not, you can always tell Grandmother, "Sorry, we're not giving you another card."
_________________________
I reject your reality and replace it with my own.

Return to Top
#2200529 - 12/12/18 08:58 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
Valley girl Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 282
TX
Thank you Burkemi. I realize that I can't require a police report, and also pretty much knew the answer. I'm suffering from holiday frauditis - we've had a lot of friendly fraud lately. I never have any luck getting info from ITunes, so disputes are always a loss. I guess in the back of my mind I was thinking along the lines of how would I prove granddaughter wasn't just lying to the grandma and she did the charges. No way to prove it though. Thank you very much for your response though.

Return to Top
#2200551 - 12/12/18 11:27 PM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
rlcarey Offline
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 77,207
Galveston, TX
I would make sure that Grandma loses all future debt card privileges to make sure history does not repeat itself.
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top
#2200555 - 12/13/18 12:24 AM Re: Apple ITunes transactions disputed CAKE
Valley girl Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 282
TX
Yes rlcarey! I'm becoming quite the Grinch according to my "former" fan base....

Return to Top

Moderator:  Andy_Z