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#2016688 - 05/28/15 05:57 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
noelekal Offline
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Of course, Ed.

Someone else can always be compelled to pick up the cost.
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#2016692 - 05/28/15 06:04 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? noelekal
GuitarDude Online
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Originally Posted By noelekal
Of course, Ed.

Someone else can always be compelled to pick up the cost.


Until the point at which "Hey, where did everybody go?" is reached. wink
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#2016707 - 05/28/15 06:48 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
if we're going to compare ourselves to the Roman Empire, I would like to be Caligula...

thanks!
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#2016716 - 05/28/15 07:00 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Oh wow Happy!
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#2016722 - 05/28/15 07:05 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Stuck w/Avatar
Then who would be Nero?
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#2016736 - 05/28/15 07:39 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
I heard Nero loved bacon...
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#2016926 - 05/29/15 03:03 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
Wolfy Offline
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Kevin Bacon could play a dancing Nero
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#2017040 - 05/29/15 05:59 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? Wolfy
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I think police WILL tend to look the other way if there is ANY chance they might have to pull a gun and shoot someone, then be arrested themselves, loose their careers, etc.

Don't break the law;
Don't run from the police;
Don't resist arrest;
and you won't find yourself dead.

Sure there are bad cops.......just like in any profession but it seems like after one incident...all of sudden ALL cops are bad?

And what about all the dozens of cases where cops shoot white people. We don't hear about those and nobody riots.

Most policemen don't stop and think..."hmmm, this person assaulting me is black...shoot him." No. If someone is assaulting someone else, color of skin does not come into play....survival comes into play.

And the idea of "he shot an unarmed person" is preposterous. EVERYONE is armed. People are perfectly capable of killing other people with their bare hands. If someone breaks into my home, I'm not going to find out if the person has a gun or a knife. The person is dangerous to me, and could kill me, without either of those items. The person will get shot.....no warnings uttered.

That is my two cents.
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#2017053 - 05/29/15 06:17 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By swiggles
Sure there are bad cops.......just like in any profession but it seems like after one incident...all of sudden ALL cops are bad?


This is far too reasonable of a concept in 2015 America.
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#2017054 - 05/29/15 06:19 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
edAudit Offline
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Sure there are bad cops.......just like in any profession but it seems like after one incident...all of sudden ALL cops are bad?

But that one instance was where a guy robbed a store beat the clerk and attempted to take the gun away from the police officer while assaulting and did NOT have his hands up claiming don't shoot.
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#2017074 - 05/29/15 06:48 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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under the Lone Star
Starts with our leadership, they set the tone....
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#2017112 - 05/29/15 07:42 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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^^^^
In every aspect of life!
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#2019087 - 06/08/15 06:37 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
Wolfy Offline
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Group of trespassing teens vandalizing a private-neighborhood pool ended with the officer drawing on 2 boys that came at him while he tried to contain a angry girl that was resisting and refusing to move along. The officer used foul language and has now been suspended pending an investigation into he response to the situation.
I am starting to agree with the news outlets that are saying officers should only patrol in pairs these days for their own safety.
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#2019111 - 06/08/15 07:49 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
CompliantOkie Offline
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Herein lies what I view as the crux of the issue of police force. Was the cop justified in the use of force? In most of these recent cases drawing so much attention, I believe so. Not sure about the one in TX reported over the weekend where he drew his weapon at a group of teens trespassing at a community pool. However if the teens had shut their mouths and obeyed his orders nothing would have happened.

I don't believe cops are infallible. I believe they can get caught up in the moment and perhaps take things too far. However, if people would comply with their orders, none of these events would have occurred. And that is what I tell my children even though we're a few years away from them being out on their own.

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#2019118 - 06/08/15 08:09 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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There are 6 levels of force. The officer should use only 1 level higher than the resistance.

http://policelink.monster.com/nfs/policelink/static/LEFG_PoliceLink_Ed3R1_File1.pdf

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#2019122 - 06/08/15 08:18 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? Rocky P
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By Rocky P
There are 6 levels of force. The officer should use only 1 level higher than the resistance.

http://policelink.monster.com/nfs/policelink/static/LEFG_PoliceLink_Ed3R1_File1.pdf


and yet, read this first line from your link

Quote:
Sudden escalation of threats, aggression, or resistance
by suspects may preclude the use of lesser levels of
force or control by officers. The decision to employ any
given level of force must be based solely on the facts
known to, or reasonably believed, by officers at the
time the action is taken.Prepare report to justify level
of force used. Include factors which may effect the
“reasonableness” of the level of force:
• Officer's age
• Officer’s size
• Relative strength of officer
• Skill level of the officer, etc.
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#2019126 - 06/08/15 08:24 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
edAudit Offline
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Sudden escalation of threats, aggression, or resistance
by suspects may preclude the use of lesser levels of
force or control by officers.

so a pool full of people not obeying direct orders to leave the pool and two people approaching the officer while he is in the process of a arrest (legal or not) may fit that category.
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#2019136 - 06/08/15 08:59 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
thomasj Offline
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From the video that I saw of the incident in Texas, the officer was trying to get control of a young girl who was resisting. Once he had her on the ground and detained, two or more young men came up behind him and did something to him that caused him to draw on them.

Plain and simple - if the people involved in this did not want it to escalate, they should have obeyed the commands of the officer. Under no circumstances should you EVER interfere with an officer who is engaged with a suspect and NEVER from behind.

I have worked with dozens of police officers and yes there are some who are better than others - but I will tell you that ALL of them that I have encountered put the safety of the general public ahead of their own on a daily basis. They have a thankless job dealing with people every day that none of us would ever want to encounter.
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#2019137 - 06/08/15 08:59 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
edAudit Offline
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I have now seen the video an it appears that some of the teens tried to rush the cop prior to him pulling the gun. based upon the tape you can not determine if the arrest of the girl was valid or not contrary to the media hype.
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#2019167 - 06/09/15 07:22 AM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Regarding the levels of force material...

I wonder how difficult it is to control a car toid?

whistle


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#2019179 - 06/09/15 12:59 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Ditto TJ. I can't imagine not obeying an officer.
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#2019201 - 06/09/15 02:36 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
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Some of the headlines I've read - "Black Teens Targeted at Pool Party" "Black Teens Aren't Even Safe at a Pool Party"

From what I have read and seen, a large group of teens descended on a private pool to which they did not have access. Some jumped the fence, many refused the outnumbered security guard and were engaging in verbal and physical confrontations. When the police did arrive and try to sort things out, they were met with defiance and verbal threats from the teenagers.

I've read several comments that the girl who was thrown to the ground has "The right to freedom of speech" and that she was assaulted for exercising that right. She does have the right to freedom of speech, but she does not have the right to disobey an officer who is outnumbered and trying to bring order to a violent situation - I think his response was appropriate.

All to often, parents and the public in general have a tendency to rally against authority and support their children even if their children are the root of the problem. There is an internet meme out there that shows parents confronting a child about poor grades in 1950 and then parents today confronting a teacher about their child's poor grades. I think that lack of personal responsibility has lead us to where we are today.
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#2019206 - 06/09/15 02:48 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
edAudit Offline
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agreed but She should sue.

Teen: Me and about 25 of my friends were resisting arrest when a cop threw me on the ground and handcuffed me while my friends were taunting the him and trying to rush him.

Judge: case dismissed
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#2019207 - 06/09/15 02:48 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? HappyGilmore
CompliantOkie Offline
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Amen TJ! I've seen that meme many times and it's spot on!

Sad that a police officer will likely lose his job because the department doesn't wish to be painted with the broad brush of racism. I feel confident the officer's response would have been the same if the group of trespassing teens were white.

The media is in the business of selling stories not reporting unbiased news.

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#2019241 - 06/09/15 03:45 PM Re: Baltimore rioting? CompliantOkie
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Originally Posted By CompliantOkie
The media is in the business of selling stories not reporting unbiased news.


precisely

Originally Posted By thomasj
Some of the headlines I've read - "Black Teens Targeted at Pool Party" "Black Teens Aren't Even Safe at a Pool Party"
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