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#2024567 - 07/01/15 08:31 PM CTR
amberleigh Offline
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Joined: May 2011
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Kansas
We have a joint account between an elderly mother and her two grown children. Mother writes and signs a check payable to cash and the two children come into the bank to get the cash over $10,000. We have both children endorse the back of the check. They say they are taking money out to give to all of their mother's children as gifts. Would you complete the CTR on all three owners or just the two that were present? Also, would you mark this as a negotiable instrument cashed and not a withdrawal since there was an actual check written even though it came out of an account they are on as joint owners?

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#2024584 - 07/01/15 08:50 PM Re: CTR amberleigh
Matt_B Offline
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A CU, Where Regs Don't Apply
Negotiable instrument, yes, and on the CTR I would just put the present two. You don't have indication mother is benefiting from the transaction, you actually have indication she's not. Might be a different answer depending on who responds though.
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#2024587 - 07/01/15 08:53 PM Re: CTR amberleigh
amberleigh Offline
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Kansas
Thank you!

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#2024591 - 07/01/15 08:54 PM Re: CTR amberleigh
Doug Hendrickson Offline
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Only the two grown children should be listed as they are the ones you can identify as benefiting from the funds.

This was in some guidance issued in 1995, regarding negotiable instrument versus withdrawal but I don't think it has changed:

24. Question: When an individual presents an on-us check drawn on an account of someone other than the presenter's account, which box should a reporting bank check? When an individual presents an on-us check drawn on the account of the presenter to withdraw funds from his/her own account, which box should be checked?

Answer: When an individual presents an on-us check drawn on an account of someone other than the presenter's account, the bank should check box 32 (Negotiable Instruments(s) Cashed). When an individual presents an on-us check drawn on the account of the presenter to withdraw funds from his/her own account, box 32 could be checked or box 34 (Deposit(s)/Withdrawal(s) may bec checked to indicate that the transaction is a withdrawal. In any case, list account numbers in Item 35 (Account Number(s) Affected).
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#2024597 - 07/01/15 09:01 PM Re: CTR amberleigh
John Burnett Offline
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In the case presented in the first post in the thread, I'd list all three individuals for two reasons. First, all three are owners of the account and FinCEN has said that you may (not must) list all joint owners for a reportable cash withdrawal. Second, because this isn't just about who's getting the cash. It's also about on whose behalf the transaction is completed. Mom is invested in distributing the funds to her kids, so she's a person on whose behalf the transaction was completed.

As for box 32 or 34, if a check is involved, check box 32.
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#2024599 - 07/01/15 09:08 PM Re: CTR John Burnett
Doug Hendrickson Offline
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Excellent point with regards the mother.
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#2025995 - 07/08/15 06:46 PM Re: CTR amberleigh
amberleigh Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 34
Kansas
Good point John. I think we will go ahead and put all three of them on the CTR. For the two kids, which box would you mark, person conducting transaction on own behalf or person conducting transaction for another? It seems like both could apply in this situation.

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#2026032 - 07/08/15 07:49 PM Re: CTR amberleigh
John Burnett Offline
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Cape Cod
When more than one of the boxes in item 2 apply to the individual on whom you are reporting, you always check the first applicable one in alphabetic order. That's in the popup instructions for item 2.
Last edited by John Burnett; 07/09/15 01:44 PM.
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