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#2028734 - 07/22/15 12:46 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... Sound Tactic
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Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Lets get real. The texts make it obvious that, yet again, the NE Patiorts are guilty of cheating.
You mean the published snippets of texts taken out of context and with tons of assumptions applied in the Wells Report? That's proof? Wow, you sure have a low standard of proof. See how easily this "texts" evidence is refuted: http://wellsreportcontext.com/#texts1

Of course, there are may here that, just like Ted Wells, your mind is made up before you even see any evidence, so evidence doesn't really matter all that much except to the extent it can be manipulated to support your preconceived notion.
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#2028746 - 07/22/15 01:06 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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The only evidence needed was the fact that the balls were underinflated on the pats side and not the opponents should have been enough (it is only a game) and should have amounted to an on game forfeit for not supplying appropriate game balls. this would have shown that the NFL has guts and we all know that they don't.
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#2028777 - 07/22/15 02:07 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... edAudit
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Originally Posted By edAudit
The only evidence needed was the fact that the balls were underinflated on the pats side and not the opponents should have been enough (it is only a game) and should have amounted to an on game forfeit for not supplying appropriate game balls. this would have shown that the NFL has guts and we all know that they don't.
That's a fact that is very much in dispute. Whether the Patriots balls were underinflated more than the Colts really is heavily dependent on both which gauges were used (and the Wells report ignores the ref's recollection and goes the way that more supports their "science") and when the measurements took place (seems the Patriots balls were measured right after the half ended - still cold from the elements, and the Colts balls measured almost at end of halftime - they ran out of time and could only test 4 of the Colts balls). So tell me again how this "fact" proves the Patriots cheated?
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#2028807 - 07/22/15 02:50 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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Is the QB still suspended?
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#2028809 - 07/22/15 02:52 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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The suspension order is still in place, as of today, yes. Does that prove something?
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#2028811 - 07/22/15 02:54 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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#2028812 - 07/22/15 02:57 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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Not disputing that.
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#2028885 - 07/22/15 04:55 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... RVFlyboy
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Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Lets get real. The texts make it obvious that, yet again, the NE Patiorts are guilty of cheating.
You mean the published snippets of texts taken out of context and with tons of assumptions applied in the Wells Report? That's proof? Wow, you sure have a low standard of proof. See how easily this "texts" evidence is refuted: http://wellsreportcontext.com/#texts1

Of course, there are may here that, just like Ted Wells, your mind is made up before you even see any evidence, so evidence doesn't really matter all that much except to the extent it can be manipulated to support your preconceived notion.


Shemp-given your very low bar for guilt, I hope that if your employer ever deems you were "generally aware" of an alleged violation you are banned for life as well.

smile
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#2028903 - 07/22/15 05:25 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... TB 12
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Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Lets get real. The texts make it obvious that, yet again, the NE Patiorts are guilty of cheating.
You mean the published snippets of texts taken out of context and with tons of assumptions applied in the Wells Report? That's proof? Wow, you sure have a low standard of proof. See how easily this "texts" evidence is refuted: http://wellsreportcontext.com/#texts1

Of course, there are may here that, just like Ted Wells, your mind is made up before you even see any evidence, so evidence doesn't really matter all that much except to the extent it can be manipulated to support your preconceived notion.


Shemp-given your very low bar for guilt, I hope that if your employer ever deems you were "generally aware" of an alleged violation you are banned for life as well.

smile


Generally aware or gave things of value in return purposely breaking the rules, then not cooperating with the investigation? I don't know, kind of seems like some serious spinning to focus so much on "generally aware". I would focus more on, failed to comply with the investigation.
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#2028905 - 07/22/15 05:27 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... RVFlyboy
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Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
The only evidence needed was the fact that the balls were underinflated on the pats side and not the opponents should have been enough (it is only a game) and should have amounted to an on game forfeit for not supplying appropriate game balls. this would have shown that the NFL has guts and we all know that they don't.
That's a fact that is very much in dispute. Whether the Patriots balls were underinflated more than the Colts really is heavily dependent on both which gauges were used (and the Wells report ignores the ref's recollection and goes the way that more supports their "science") and when the measurements took place (seems the Patriots balls were measured right after the half ended - still cold from the elements, and the Colts balls measured almost at end of halftime - they ran out of time and could only test 4 of the Colts balls). So tell me again how this "fact" proves the Patriots cheated?


Do you care to back this up with some figures? You know, kind of like the figures that backed up the claim that the Patriots balls were under inflated. It is amazing how much fanaticism will mask the truth.
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#2028916 - 07/22/15 05:36 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... TB 12
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Originally Posted By TB 12
banned for life as well.

smile


I haven't seen anyone advocating this, NFL or otherwise...
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#2028926 - 07/22/15 05:49 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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My good friend Shemp called for Tom Brady's lifetime ban in the other deflategate thread.

Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Originally Posted By TB 12
There is no way the 4 game suspension sticks.


It should be a lifetime ban.
Last edited by TB 12; 07/22/15 06:50 PM. Reason: added shemps quote
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#2028937 - 07/22/15 06:07 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... TB 12
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As the suspension is under appeal that is always a possibility laugh

4 days (and an asterisk next to the SB win in the record book) seems appropriate.
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#2028955 - 07/22/15 06:38 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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I could really sink my teeth into this if it wasn't for the university he played his college ball.
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#2028957 - 07/22/15 06:41 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... Sound Tactic
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Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
That's a fact that is very much in dispute. Whether the Patriots balls were underinflated more than the Colts really is heavily dependent on both which gauges were used (and the Wells report ignores the ref's recollection and goes the way that more supports their "science") and when the measurements took place (seems the Patriots balls were measured right after the half ended - still cold from the elements, and the Colts balls measured almost at end of halftime - they ran out of time and could only test 4 of the Colts balls). So tell me again how this "fact" proves the Patriots cheated?


Do you care to back this up with some figures? You know, kind of like the figures that backed up the claim that the Patriots balls were under inflated. It is amazing how much fanaticism will mask the truth.

Sure. See http://wellsreportcontext.com/#intercepted and read the next 7 to 8 paragraphs. Be sure to read the included link to the Nobel Laureate chemistry professor's scientific conclusions too. Also, keep in mind that it is widely acknowledged that the Colts balls were tested pre-game to PSI's that were both higher than the Patriots and higher than the Colts balls tested at halftime too. So still a lot of holes in the "fact" that the Patriots balls were deflated and the Colts balls were not. But hey, why let science get in the way of our "facts", right?
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#2028960 - 07/22/15 06:45 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By Pale Rider
I could really sink my teeth into this if it wasn't for the university he played his college ball.


???

There was cheating at Michigan when he was there as well (I do not think he had anything to do with it as it has not been proved as in deflatgate)
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#2028963 - 07/22/15 06:46 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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The best outcome would be for the NFL to put any discipline regarding this on hold until the end of the 2015 season. During the season, for every team, under league control, measure and record PSI readings before, at halftime, and immediately following every game. See what the data say about PSI changes during gameplay. Then if that data still corroborates that the Patriot's ball measurements during the AFCCG could only have been based on manipulation of the pressure, throw the book at them. But if the data corroborates that the pressure for the AFCCG balls could have been produced solely by the elements at play, then the Patriots are owed a full apology.
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#2028971 - 07/22/15 06:52 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... edAudit
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Originally Posted By edAudit
There was cheating at Michigan when he was there as well (I do not think he had anything to do with it as it has not been proved as in deflatgate)
First I've heard - do you have any links to corroborate? Or should we just accept this as facts?
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#2028974 - 07/22/15 06:52 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... RVFlyboy
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Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
That's a fact that is very much in dispute. Whether the Patriots balls were underinflated more than the Colts really is heavily dependent on both which gauges were used (and the Wells report ignores the ref's recollection and goes the way that more supports their "science") and when the measurements took place (seems the Patriots balls were measured right after the half ended - still cold from the elements, and the Colts balls measured almost at end of halftime - they ran out of time and could only test 4 of the Colts balls). So tell me again how this "fact" proves the Patriots cheated?


Do you care to back this up with some figures? You know, kind of like the figures that backed up the claim that the Patriots balls were under inflated. It is amazing how much fanaticism will mask the truth.

Sure. See http://wellsreportcontext.com/#intercepted and read the next 7 to 8 paragraphs. Be sure to read the included link to the Nobel Laureate chemistry professor's scientific conclusions too. Also, keep in mind that it is widely acknowledged that the Colts balls were tested pre-game to PSI's that were both higher than the Patriots and higher than the Colts balls tested at halftime too. So still a lot of holes in the "fact" that the Patriots balls were deflated and the Colts balls were not. But hey, why let science get in the way of our "facts", right?


Other noted Noble prize winners include Yasser Arafat, Al Gore, President Obama...
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#2028976 - 07/22/15 06:53 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
^^^wouldn't you also have to be able to replicate game temperatures to ensure proper context^^^
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#2028977 - 07/22/15 06:53 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... RVFlyboy
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Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
There was cheating at Michigan when he was there as well (I do not think he had anything to do with it as it has not been proved as in deflatgate)
First I've heard - do you have any links to corroborate? Or should we just accept this as facts?


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/246515-michigans-cheating-scandal-is-serious
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#2028985 - 07/22/15 07:08 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... YosemiteSamIAm
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As was also fully explained to the investigators, another issue that Mr. Jastremski and Mr. McNally often tweaked each other about dealt with Mr. McNally’s duties as the Officials’ Locker Room attendant. It was the standard practice for Mr. McNally to deliver a gauge and a pump from the equipment room to the Officials’ Locker Room for their use in their pre-game inspection. Sometimes, Mr. McNally was provided with a gauge and pump with only one of them having a needle in it. This would lead Officials relying on the Patriots equipment for their pre-game inspection to have to take out the needle and move it back and forth between the gauge and pump during. (pg. 80). Officials would, on those occasions, often send Mr. McNally back to the equipment room to get a second needle that they could use. Mr. McNally had to ask Mr. Jastremski for any needles requested by an official


I did not know that the Pats were responsible to give the gauge to the Officials. if it was a defective gauge they have no one to blame but themselves.
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#2029013 - 07/22/15 08:06 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... edAudit
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Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
There was cheating at Michigan when he was there as well (I do not think he had anything to do with it as it has not been proved as in deflatgate)
First I've heard - do you have any links to corroborate? Or should we just accept this as facts?


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/246515-michigans-cheating-scandal-is-serious

So unless I'm missing something, this is cheating that allegedly occurred in 2008 and 2009 under Head Coach Rich Rodriguez. Tom Brady played at Michigan from 1996-1999 under coach Lloyd Carr. You said "There was cheating at Michigan when he was there". I don't see how that's so from this link. Sounds like just another effort to spread taint with unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation to me.
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#2029019 - 07/22/15 08:13 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... RVFlyboy
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Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
That's a fact that is very much in dispute. Whether the Patriots balls were underinflated more than the Colts really is heavily dependent on both which gauges were used (and the Wells report ignores the ref's recollection and goes the way that more supports their "science") and when the measurements took place (seems the Patriots balls were measured right after the half ended - still cold from the elements, and the Colts balls measured almost at end of halftime - they ran out of time and could only test 4 of the Colts balls). So tell me again how this "fact" proves the Patriots cheated?


Do you care to back this up with some figures? You know, kind of like the figures that backed up the claim that the Patriots balls were under inflated. It is amazing how much fanaticism will mask the truth.

Sure. See http://wellsreportcontext.com/#intercepted and read the next 7 to 8 paragraphs. Be sure to read the included link to the Nobel Laureate chemistry professor's scientific conclusions too. Also, keep in mind that it is widely acknowledged that the Colts balls were tested pre-game to PSI's that were both higher than the Patriots and higher than the Colts balls tested at halftime too. So still a lot of holes in the "fact" that the Patriots balls were deflated and the Colts balls were not. But hey, why let science get in the way of our "facts", right?


Lots of justification for cheating here. Sorry, I have read the report and read attempts to justify things with pseudo science by lining up things that might have been wrong, but cannot prove they were wrong. I have something that is going to blow your mind. A ball is a sealed system. So when you measure PSI from a sealed system under the same conditions (temp) at a later time, the PSI should remain the same. But it didn't. Not only that, but you have someone admitting guilt and admitting they changed the PSI.

After reading this report I see nothing, other than an attempt to line up all the planets, in order to get the psi's to match.

Not only that but here is some conjecture that was used in this analysis:

Quote:
This statement assumes that the pregame measurements on Patriots balls were made with the low gauge.
Quote:


No it doesn't.

Science consultants for the Wells Report tested a lot of gauges and found that the low gauge was more similar to other gauges.


This defeats this guys argument.

Quote:
The recollected (i.e. not recorded) pressures for Patriots pregame measurements is “most of the Patriots footballs measured at 12.5 pounds per square inch-gauge (psig), though there may have been one or two that measured at 12.6 psig.” This means that the Patriots gauge and the Official’s pre-game gauge were right on (and similarly for the Colts gauge). This level of precision and accuracy in recollected numbers seems unlikely if you look at data that were actually recorded in writing.


So the author did not like the new numbers so he complaints about them without any information about the actual guages.

This is too easy. I could do this all day. Would you like me to continue?
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#2029026 - 07/22/15 08:21 PM Re: I'm So Bored That... edAudit
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Originally Posted By edAudit
As was also fully explained to the investigators, another issue that Mr. Jastremski and Mr. McNally often tweaked each other about dealt with Mr. McNally’s duties as the Officials’ Locker Room attendant. It was the standard practice for Mr. McNally to deliver a gauge and a pump from the equipment room to the Officials’ Locker Room for their use in their pre-game inspection. Sometimes, Mr. McNally was provided with a gauge and pump with only one of them having a needle in it. This would lead Officials relying on the Patriots equipment for their pre-game inspection to have to take out the needle and move it back and forth between the gauge and pump during. (pg. 80). Officials would, on those occasions, often send Mr. McNally back to the equipment room to get a second needle that they could use. Mr. McNally had to ask Mr. Jastremski for any needles requested by an official


I did not know that the Pats were responsible to give the gauge to the Officials. if it was a defective gauge they have no one to blame but themselves.
The officials have two gauges. One from each team. How are you able to so quickly jump to the conclusion that it was the Patriot's gauge that was defective and not the gauge provided by the Colts. The officials have two gauges. The referee states his recollection that the gauge he used in his pre-game measurements was the logo gauge. In spite of this, the Wells Report concludes that he must have used the non-logo gauge. Nowhere does it say who provided which gauge. But hey, fit the evidence to whatever your preconceived notion is.

We've debated this so long and it is obvious that nothing I'm going to say is going to convince any of you that there just isn't enough evidence to conclusively say that any cheating occurred. Just like the Steelers of the 70s, 49ers of the 80s, Cowboys of the 90s, NY Yankees of forever, I'm just glad to be a fan of a team with so much success as to be hated by so many.
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