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#202965 - 06/29/04 09:48 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
David Dickinson Offline
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I certainly don't want to argue with the experts here at BOL. It is certainly safe to always give married applicants their own notice, but I don't think it is technically required. I don't see the Act requiring this.
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#202966 - 06/29/04 10:46 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Andy_Z Offline
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David, in my post above, #209963, the quote is from the Stinneford. I read it literally because that is how I believe they intended it.

Quote:

a creditor cannot send a combined ECOA/FCRA adverse action notification to only the primary applicant if the application is denied, even in part, based on information in a co-applicant's consumer report. In that circumstance, the co-applicant has been the subject of "adverse action" and must be provided his or her own separate notification




They do not believe a joint adverse action notice is community property and don't consider it adequate notification. Admittedly I have usually gone to the side of caution, I do here as well. They clearly did not say one notice was sufficient.
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#202967 - 06/30/04 02:03 AM Re: adverse action for a married couple
David Dickinson Offline
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I really don't have much more to say. Andy, I don't know that I have ever debated an issue with you, so I proceed respectively and cautiously. Once again, it would be completely safe to follow your advise, but I'm always looking for the easier, more simple way. In fact, that's what I get paid to do.

Can you give me the background on the Stinneford letter? I don't believe the issue was about a husband and wife receiving an AAN. Maybe this won't matter, but I'm interested in the history.
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#202968 - 06/30/04 03:06 AM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Andy_Z Offline
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I have it linked in the post above, I believe. It wasn't directly on this issue (husband/wife, same address), but I believe it addresses it. The intent is adequate notification under the FCRA and their (the FTC's) opinion differs from the FRB on sending a single notice.

If there is conclusive proof that one notice may be sent I'd like to know. Certainly it is less expensive in more than one way. But Stinneford is the most compelling read I have seen on it. The post above indicates the FDIC agrees, but "joint intent" has shaken my confidence in them.
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#202969 - 06/30/04 02:03 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
BankerMama Offline
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Soccer Mom, can you point me to the statement you are referring to that came out earlier this year concerning excantancy of priacy on joint applications?

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#202970 - 06/30/04 03:52 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Andy_Z Offline
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Many commenters were concerned about the co-applicant’s or guarantor’s privacy when the reasons for adverse action pertaining to creditworthiness are given to the primary applicant. When a person agrees to be a co-applicant, guarantor, or similar party, however, there is (or should be) a general understanding that information will be shared.

FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM
12 CFR Part 202
[Regulation B; Docket No. R-1008]
EQUAL CREDIT OPPORTUNITY
AGENCY: Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.
ACTION: Final rule.
Page 19
[Federal Register: March 18, 2003 (Volume 68, Number 52)]
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#202971 - 06/30/04 03:56 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
David Dickinson Offline
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OK, I read the Stinneford letter again. I tried to empty my mind of any preconceived thoughts. The letter specifically states that "any consumer" with respect to whom adverse action is taken must recieve the disclosures . . . Later it states the co-applicant . . . must be provided his or her own separate notification . . .

My whole argument is based on the issue that a husband and wife joint application is not an application that involves a PRIMARY applicant and a co-applicant. Instead, they are both primary applicants.

But... I give up. I realize that I have a weak (very weak) argument.

Thanks for the great discussion.
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#202972 - 06/30/04 04:10 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
SMQ, CRCM Offline

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Sorry for any confusion, final rule was effective 4/2003, mandatory compliance 4/2004

Reg B from page 19 of the document----
9(b) Form of ECOA notice and statement of specific reasons
Section 202.9(b)(2), adopted as proposed, clarifies that whether a creditor’s denial of credit is based on the creditworthiness of the applicant, a joint applicant, or guarantor, the reasons for adverse action must be specific. For example, a general statement that “the guarantor did not meet the creditor’s standards of creditworthiness” is insufficient.

AND

Many commenters were concerned about the co-applicant’s or guarantor’s privacy when the reasons for adverse action pertaining to creditworthiness are given to the primary applicant. When a person agrees to be a co-applicant, guarantor, or similar party, however, there is (or should be) a general understanding that information will be shared. Accordingly, the rule has been adopted as proposed.

Andy was quicker---AGAIN!!!
Last edited by SoccerMom; 06/30/04 04:13 PM.
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#202973 - 06/30/04 06:42 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
BankerMama Offline
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Thanks so much guys. That's exactly what I needed. Don't know what I would do without your help

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#202974 - 06/30/04 08:14 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Andy_Z Offline
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Dear Diary, Today I was able to provide some good information and I got a post in first. Dan didn't beat me this time. (It doesn't matter that he wasn't involved in this thread.) And David yielded on a FCRA issue. I felt the Earth stop spinning on its axis for a moment. It was a good day.

Now back to my boys and being wrong, old and slow again.
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My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
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#202975 - 06/30/04 08:28 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Dolly Nugent Offline
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Andy,

You have such a great sense of humor!
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#202976 - 06/30/04 09:05 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Dan Persfull Offline
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Quote:

Dear Diary, Today I was able to provide some good information and I got a post in first. Dan didn't beat me this time. (It doesn't matter that he wasn't involved in this thread.) And David yielded on a FCRA issue. I felt the Earth stop spinning on its axis for a moment. It was a good day.

Now back to my boys and being wrong, old and slow again.




. You were doing just fine (as usual) on your own. There really wasn't anything I could add.

At least you persuaded him on this issue, that was better than I could do in the "property of 25 acres or more" discussion.
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#202977 - 06/30/04 10:07 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
David Dickinson Offline
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David Dickinson
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Central City, NE
Quote:

Dear Diary, Today I was able to provide some good information and I got a post in first. Dan didn't beat me this time. (It doesn't matter that he wasn't involved in this thread.) And David yielded on a FCRA issue. I felt the Earth stop spinning on its axis for a moment. It was a good day.

Now back to my boys and being wrong, old and slow again.



Dear Diary: Did you feel the earth today? It felt like it stopped spinning for a minute. Don't know what happened, but it sure was strange. Sure was an all around bad day.

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#202978 - 07/01/04 10:06 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Andy_Z Offline
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Answering a good question, $10.95
Beating Dan (and Soccermom), $14.95
Reading David's response, priceless, what a hoot.

You guys make this fun.
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My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
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Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

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#202979 - 07/01/04 10:16 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:


At least you persuaded him on this issue, that was better than I could do in the "property of 25 acres or more" discussion.




Dear Diary,
I fear I have missed a juicy and important RESPA discussion involving Dan and David. How could I possibly miss a post on BOL? Isn't it my job to read every single one of them?

Signed,
Troubled

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#202980 - 07/01/04 11:19 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
David Dickinson Offline
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Central City, NE
You guys crack me up .... stop it, you're killing me!
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#202981 - 07/02/04 01:55 AM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Princess Romeo Offline

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Dear Diary,
Does the FCRA say anything about the notices having to be in separate envelopes?

Would anyone care if we addressed the notice to husband and wife, put two copies in one envelope, and mailed it?

If husband and wife took the envelope from their mailbox and put it immediately into their shredder, would anyone notice? or care?

And why did the FCRA pre-emption over California SB1 get overturned the day SB1 prohibits affiliate sharing?
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#202982 - 07/02/04 01:43 PM Re: adverse action for a married couple
Anonymous
Unregistered

Dolly - We are in the Boston region. The examiners tend to be very conservative.

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