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#2030670 - 07/30/15 10:55 AM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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If Kraft is that outraged and has no faith in the league he always has the option of selling the team. Coming off a SB* win the team should bring in mega bucks. I do not see that happening as the outrage is fake and he know Brady is a cheat.
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#2030689 - 07/30/15 12:58 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
he should be outraged at the embarrassing situation his personnel put him in...zero cooperation across the board for the investigation...this lack of cooperation is what caused the NFL to draw the conclusions they did and issue the penalty...
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#2030698 - 07/30/15 01:14 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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#2030716 - 07/30/15 02:14 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
well, this seems to deflate all the arguments about what Brady should have done or not done, and what he was required to do...

Quote:
More important than Brady’s alleged role in altering the footballs was his lack of cooperation with the investigation. The NFL’s collective bargaining agreement requires players to cooperate with all investigations, but Brady refused to turn over his cell phone and it was later revealed that he had an assistant destroy the phone before meeting with investigators. That, as much as the actual rules violation, is what the NFL is punishing.
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#2030786 - 07/30/15 04:10 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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In most cases, the cover up is worse than the crime. I'm glad the NFLPA case was moved to New York. It had no business being tried in Minnesota other than having a judge who was probably a football fan and ruled favorably for players in the past.

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#2030953 - 07/30/15 10:48 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Different leagues/sport, but just something to throw out there.

Most recently (to me, anyway) in the MLB pitcher Michael Pineda of the Yankees was suspended for 10 games in 2014 for using pine tar to doctor the ball. He was caught, on camera, multiple times before actually being thrown out of the game. A 10 game suspension essentially equals 2 starts in a 5-man rotation. That ratio comparative to the total games/starts of a pitcher for someone caught on camera altering the ball used is significantly lower than the penalty imposed on Brady. And he didn't cooperate until guilty either, he was accused of it far before the actual ejection, and then kept doing it, and again was caught on camera rather than circumstantially. I'd say the pitcher in baseball is comparative to the quarterback in football, directs the team, takes the heat for success/failure for the most part, etc plus there's still other factors that must go right for the pitcher/quarterback to get the W.

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh? Maybe this is more of a thing against Goodell again which we've essentially agreed on him being the worst, but don't you think either Pineda's suspension should have been longer, or Brady's shorter?
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#2030968 - 07/31/15 10:29 AM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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A 10 game suspension essentially equals 2 starts in a 5-man rotation

But did the Yankees team use pin tar on every pitch over the course of several years because Pineda was using it during one (or more) game on a few pitches? Did Pineda question the authority of MLB to even question him? Did Pineda throw a temper tantrum and have some flunkie break the camera that had footage of him cheating?


can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh? nope


but don't you think either Pineda's suspension should have been longer, or Brady's shorter? nope again (see George Brett Pine tar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Incident


Sorry Apples and Oranges
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#2030979 - 07/31/15 01:00 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) PrimeTime
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.
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#2030983 - 07/31/15 01:02 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Yeah I figured it might be a stretch to some. I'll take a lap.
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#2030991 - 07/31/15 01:23 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.


^This!^
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#2030993 - 07/31/15 01:28 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Off the field would also entail PEDs that would absolutely relate to football. The domestic violence things I would agree with though but more often than not we do see those reduced after the initial suspensions, such as recently with Le'Veon Bell's going from 3 games to 2 for a repeated substance abuse (not PED's in that case).
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#2030999 - 07/31/15 01:36 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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"Off the field would also entail PEDs " why? That is like saying deflating the ball is off field as it happened in the locker room.
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#2031000 - 07/31/15 01:40 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Somewhere in the middle
It depends on what type of PED he was taking, could have been an Off the Field issue whistle
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#2031038 - 07/31/15 02:42 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.


No 4 game suspensions for the same violation of doctoring footballs despite it being caught on video:

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-viking...anthers-vikings


I will wait for the explanations as to how this is different.
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#2031041 - 07/31/15 02:45 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
I hope you aren't awaiting an explanation from me, as I don't have one, that would fall to the NFL. And we all agree they are inconsistent in their application of punishment.
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#2031042 - 07/31/15 02:47 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) PrimeTime
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By PrimeTime
Off the field would also entail PEDs that would absolutely relate to football.


I was more thinking the ones that have trouble with the law, alcohol or recreational drug use, traffic violations, violence, not PED related.

The use of PEDs is policed and dealt with, although not always timely or in the same manner, but you make a valid point. It definitely can have impact if not caught in a timely fashion.
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#2031047 - 07/31/15 02:57 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) TB 12
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Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.


No 4 game suspensions for the same violation of doctoring footballs despite it being caught on video:

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-viking...anthers-vikings


I will wait for the explanations as to how this is different.


And no 4 game suspension for letting the air out of footballs.4 games for not cooperating with the league and making Goodall look more like a fool ( which prior was thought to be impossible)
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#2031054 - 07/31/15 03:05 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.2309962

I am thinking more than 4 for this mess.
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#2031061 - 07/31/15 03:21 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
they should add additional time for that horrendous shirt he is wearing in his mug shot...
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#2031073 - 07/31/15 03:52 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
they should add additional time for that horrendous shirt he is wearing in his mug shot...


Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that. Sheesh man.
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#2031075 - 07/31/15 03:55 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I hope you aren't awaiting an explanation from me, as I don't have one, that would fall to the NFL. And we all agree they are inconsistent in their application of punishment.
And that's the primary basis of the NFLPA court case against the NFL.
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#2031084 - 07/31/15 04:07 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Two observations, and I preface them by stating that I am a Brady and Pats fan.

1. If the league has a rule on inflation of the balls, the league itself (in the person of the on-field officials), not the teams' equipment folks, should have sole control of the balls for each game.

2. If team owners are unhappy with the haphazard way that punishment is doled out, they can do something about it. They could push the league to adopt punishment guidelines and allow the Commish to exceed the guidelines only with the approval of a majority (or supermajority) of owners.
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#2031132 - 07/31/15 05:46 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
gee John, thanks for ruining this thread by inserting logic... crazy
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#2031134 - 07/31/15 05:49 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) RVFlyboy
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I hope you aren't awaiting an explanation from me, as I don't have one, that would fall to the NFL. And we all agree they are inconsistent in their application of punishment.
And that's the primary basis of the NFLPA court case against the NFL.


shame on the NFLPA for granting sole powers of application and punishment to the commissioner...of course, during the collective bargaining process, they were much more concerned with getting more money from the owners to the players by way of revenue sharing, so I suppose they had to give somewhere, and this appears to be where they gave. if this were a Reg E claim, we'd all agree that buyers remorse is not a valid argument
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#2031143 - 07/31/15 06:02 PM Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) HappyGilmore
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2. If team owners are unhappy with the haphazard way that punishment is doled out, they can do something about it. They could push the league to adopt punishment guidelines and allow the Commish to exceed the guidelines only with the approval of a majority (or supermajority) of owners.

John

Just like in banking one can not make a rule and penalty for every imaginable possibility an ethically challenged person would do. One would not expect a written maximum penalty for adjusting the volume of speakers when the opponent takes the offence, a Coach tripping a player in play or fiddling with the air pressure of balls. I have always said just when I think I have seen it all (in banking) something happens to make me realize that I have a long way to go to see it all
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