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#2035115 - 08/21/15 03:34 PM DMV Fee
Adam F Offline
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VA
I have a question on where the DMV Fee should be listed on the Loan Closing Disclosure?

This fee occurs when a customer purchases a manufactured home and is paid to the DMV to transfer the title into the purchasers name, add the bank as a lienholder on the title and to pay the sales tax. On the HUD we put it in the 1200 series usually line 1207.

Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks
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TRID - TILA/RESPA Integrated Disclosures Rule
#2035116 - 08/21/15 03:37 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
raitchjay Online
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I would think in Other Costs, Section E, as a recording fee.
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#2035131 - 08/21/15 03:55 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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Should we list it as a separate line above Transfer Tax as DMV Fee or could we group it in like this:

Recording Fee Deed: $ Mortgage: $ DMV: $
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#2035153 - 08/21/15 04:38 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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If you look at the rule in the commentary pg 79795-79796 you will notice that TRID exempts personal property and a title manufactured home is considered by the regulators to be personal property. ... "while it may serve as a residence, but more closely resemble motor vehicles transactions..."

Conclusion "closed-end consumer transactions secured by personal property and not real property.... will be subject to Reg Z..."

If the title to the M/H is or will be eliminated that is the only time TRID will apply.
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#2035155 - 08/21/15 04:48 PM Re: DMV Fee Lakeminded
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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Originally Posted By lakeminded
If you look at the rule in the commentary pg 79795-79796 you will notice that TRID exempts personal property and a title manufactured home is considered by the regulators to be personal property. ... "while it may serve as a residence, but more closely resemble motor vehicles transactions..."

Conclusion "closed-end consumer transactions secured by personal property and not real property.... will be subject to Reg Z..."

If the title to the M/H is or will be eliminated that is the only time TRID will apply.


That will be true if there is no land as collateral. In that case, TRID rules will not apply and the loan will only have a TILA. If the loan is secured by the titled manufactured home and land, TRID will apply.
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#2035159 - 08/21/15 04:50 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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In the case of my question the loan would be secured by the title manufactured home and land.
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#2035160 - 08/21/15 04:55 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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Any charges or fees imposed by a State or local government that are not transfer taxes are aggregated with recording fees and disclosed under § 1026.37(g)(1)(i).

38(g)(1) Taxes and other government fees.

1. Guidance. For additional guidance on taxes and other government fees, see comments 37(g)(1)-1, -2, -3, and -4.


That is pretty much what you have to work with in deciding what to do.
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#2035183 - 08/21/15 05:29 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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Kathleen, I was hoping someone would jump in on our interpretation, because I need a sounding board. So why the carve out at all in this section if they don't mean that a titled manufactured home is exempt with dirt? They have defined it as non real property.
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#2035187 - 08/21/15 05:36 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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Not Kathleen, but a manufactured home without dirt isn't real property, but it doesn't negate the actual dirt you have when you have land with it. IOW, either you have dirt or you don't and if you do, and it's consumer purpose, it's covered by TRID. There simply isn't any other way out of:

(i) Creditor. In a closed-end consumer credit transaction secured by real property, other than a reverse mortgage subject to § 1026.33, the creditor shall provide the consumer with good faith estimates of the disclosures in § 1026.37.
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#2035191 - 08/21/15 05:49 PM Re: DMV Fee Lakeminded
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Originally Posted By lakeminded
Kathleen, I was hoping someone would jump in on our interpretation, because I need a sounding board. So why the carve out at all in this section if they don't mean that a titled manufactured home is exempt with dirt? They have defined it as non real property.


The dirt brings it under TRID, it is as simple as that. Assuming consumer purpose, dirt with nothing on it is subject to TRID, dirt with a goat shed is subject to TRID, dirt with a manufactured home is subject to TRID.

A manufactured home without a lien on the dirt is not subject to TRID.

The dirt is the deciding factor.
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#2035197 - 08/21/15 06:09 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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The concept of consumer purpose secured by dirt is entrenched, but I was trying to find logic why they (the regulators) would spend so much time discussing "non dirt" unless they were making a carve out for a non real-property manufactured home (titled)loan even if there was dirt. The bit about the consumer "might find the disclosures under TRID to confusing"? So once you have dirt, it's no longer confusing - what does that have to do with anything?

For now I will side on the side of caution and consider it a TRID loan - just I don't see the logic in them discussing a carve out that would that doesn't automatically fall into the scope of TRID.
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#2035199 - 08/21/15 06:14 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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It really has nothing to do with anything other than the dirt.
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#2035208 - 08/21/15 06:32 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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It's most definitely a TRID loan. The only time it's not is if it's a manufactured home ONLY loan.

It's funny to me they consider the disclosure 'too confusing' for MH-only loans...to me those are the borrowers most in need of protection 9 out of 10 times.
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#2035209 - 08/21/15 06:33 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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It is no different than you taking both the person's typical house plus their car as collateral for the loan. The house and the dirt trigger the TRID disclosures and the personal property just tags along with the transaction. The TRID rules discuss what to do when personal property + dirt secures the loan.

See 37(a)(6) Property - Comment 2 for an example.
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#2035210 - 08/21/15 06:33 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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DMV fees. We list those under recording fees - non Real Estate title fee.
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#2035220 - 08/21/15 06:49 PM Re: DMV Fee Adam F
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Joker,

How do you guys plan on breaking it out on the loan closing disclosure. Something like this:

Originally Posted By NSFW
Recording Fee Deed: $ Mortgage: $ DMV: $


I am not sure if our vendor will allow this or will we just have to combine it with the total for the recording the mortgage. And then list the aggregate total under borrower paid at closing.
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It is better to act cautiously beforehand than to suffer afterward.

The answers I give are my opinions. Not legal advice.

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