KB - Thanks for the update! The confirmation response you rec'd matches what I had understood in my initial call with CFPB a month ago.

I also spoke with the CFPB about this issue and got the same response as KB.

Same here. No change, just the add on "if they want to disclose, do so with an (L)."

So disappointed. Just so that I would have my own documentation, I contacted the CFPB about this issue of whether or not we have to disclose the credit report fee on the Loan Estimate and Closing Disclosure if the bank is ALWAYS going to pay it. The response I got was, YES! Not what I wanted to hear. (It wasn't David Friend who called me back, it was someone named Ann - I didn't catch her last name). Seems it would be easy enough to just disclose it, but alas, we are still stuck in a situation where the company providing the report isn't charging a flat fee, so the charges change all the time - nor are they exactly double for a joint report vs. an individual report. We'd be using the average cost method previously, but this seemed like a way to make this whole thing much easier. Guess we are back to disclosing the average charge. :-\ She also wasn't able to answer my question about how doing that impacted the APR (saw that in a previous BOL discussion).

I am disappointed in my response from CFPB as well - based on this thread and the responses that others received regarding a truly no fee home equity loan and not listing the fees along with a lender credit on the LE - I sent an email and got a call back yesterday and she kept referring me to 1026.19 (e)(3) regarding Lender Credits - specific and general. She indicated that we had to disclose the fees along with the lender credit in Section J so she shot down my hopes of not having to disclose since they were not legally obligated to pay ANY fees in conjunction with the loan. Prior to contacting CFPB I reached out to our regulator and they told me to contact CFPB and then let them know what I found out...

@doodles - So the CFPB told you that you had to disclose on the LE? Or were they talking about the CD?

FWIW, the response we got from our regulator (FDIC Atlanta region) was that they expect to see lender paid items listed, too. We specifically asked about the credit report - ours are pretty much the same situation as CalifDreamin's - and explained about the opinions that had been received from the CFPB, but they basically said, "Too bad, so sad."

So we're back to putting the stupid credit report average charge on the disclosures. To make matters even more fun, if we identify it as a lender paid cost on the LE and then end up with a tolerance cure for whatever reason on the closing side, our software double counts it and we end up with a $5 error every single time. The only way we've found to make it NOT do that is to show the $5 as borrower paid on the LE (which it isn't) and then switch it to lender paid on the CloD.

Now our disclosures are now even more confusing than they were before over a stupid $5 fee that doesn't even really get charged.

1. Is your first paragraph referring to the LE or the CloD?

2. There is no way to show a cost as lender-paid on the LE. The LE assumes all costs shown are borrower costs. There is spot for lender credits, but it's risky to disclose them unless you realize you are committing to at least the amount of credits disclosed there.

1. In general. The response from the FDIC did not specify.

2. Our software allows individual fees to be tagged as lender paid on the LE (application side). It then shows the amount of that fee in the Lender Credits line, which is what causes the error on the closing side if there is a tolerance issue with something else. The vendor responded that the program is "working as designed" and suggested we stick to the double-work method of entering the fee as borrower-paid on the LE and then changing it to lender-paid on the CloD.

I realize that this seems like a small issue and is probably very straightforward and simple for some operations, but it is frustrating when a) training processors that they'll have to do this step twice for every loan; and b) training branch staff that they'll have to explain to every borrower that the cash to close on every LE is too high by at least $5.

The person from CFPB who called me today specifically stated that we needed to show the credit report fee on BOTH the Loan Estimate AND the Closing Disclosure even if this was always going to be lender paid, and then we needed to follow the specific credit instructions for the Closing Disclosure.

I did exactly the same thing CalifDreamin did for the same reasons last week. I also talked to Ann (the way she pronounced her name was hard to understand even when she spelled it. I wrote down Bom-eign, but I don't think I got it right.)

Serendipity - CFPB told me that I had to show the fees and the lender credit on both the LE and the CD. I was hopeful that they would confirm what others had posted - that because they were never going to be legally obligated to pay any fees there was no need to list on the LE but that was not the case with my contact with them yesterday. Not a happy camper here for sure.

It's absolutely crazy, too, because after all...aren't they wanting a TRUE picture for folks to shop with?

Unless I'm reading this thread totally wrong, some of you appear to have gotten a totally different answer from "Ann" then Kathleen and Jerrod got from whoever they talked to?
Maybe this is just Ann's interpretation.
Every time I've talked to the CFPB I've been told that what I'm getting is only that specific person's opinion and NOT the Bureau's stance.
Has anyone contacted the CFPB to let them know they appear to be talking out of both sides of their mouth on this one?

I surely hope that you told whomever you talked to from the CFPB that the information they were providing you was in direct conflict with information that has been provided to numerous other individuals that have asked the same question????

Can I pretend I didn't read these updates? I'd really like to stick to the opinion given to Jarod and KayBee.

Also can this topic be addressed at Triage next week. Would love to hear the Guru's hash it out on stage and maybe come to some sort of resolution, though until the Bureau formally addresses bankers there will be no true resolution.

Well, since I too contacted the Bureau and was told I did not have to disclose it, I will have to ask our regulator (OCC) what their stance is on this issue.

Hopefully they will provide something to work on.

We are certainly getting mixed messages in these contacts with the Bureau. It would be excellent if they were all using the same playbook.

RR Becca: If you include that cost on the LE and show a lender credit in the same amount, they should wash, and the Cash to Close calculation should be accurate (as much as any CTC on an LE can be accurate).

When you carry it to the CloD, you'll have to reassign it to the Paid by Others column by making it a lender paid item. That should match the lender credit from the LE so you aren't creating a cure problem.

You would think so, but apparently the software double-counts the lender credit from the LE when there is also a cure. I've been going back and forth with their techs about it since mid-September.

"Well, since I too contacted the Bureau and was told I did not have to disclose it, I will have to ask our regulator (OCC) what their stance is on this issue."

The OCC really has no say in the matter. Only the CFPB can interpret the regulations.

No, but I'm hoping to get something in writing from them regarding this issue. Something is better than nothing.

The CFPB does not commit anything to writing based on a phone call or an email. That is why they called you.

We are not talking about the CFPB anymore.

So you are talking about asking the OCC to commit to something in writing??

Maybe I'm crazy but if I have info from the CFPB, be it a phone call or reference to a phone call from a trusted source, I document it and move on. I certainly am not going to wave a red flag in front of my regulator asking them to clarify the info from the CFPB. If it comes up in an exam, I show my source and ask them to show me where the Reg says differently.