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#2045310 - 10/21/15 12:54 AM When is application considered received?
Snowgirl Offline
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We have 13 branches and 6 Loan Production Offices along with a separate Mortgage Department in one location. A few of our loan officers have NMLS numbers but most do not. If a customer brings an application in to one of our locations where there is not an NMLS officer located (they are simply passing it on to the correct department), when is the application considered received? Is it when it enters our bank or is it when it is received at our Mortgage Department by the actual NMLS officer?

Is this considered a face-to-face application or do we consider this situation a mail application for the GMI information?

Thanks!

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#2045320 - 10/21/15 03:13 AM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Truffle Royale Offline

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NMLS has nothing to do with receipt date.
When your bank receives the application is the received date.
If the customer is bringing in a completed application it's considered a mail application.
It's only face to face when the applicant actually sits down and fills out the application in the bank.

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#2045428 - 10/21/15 04:46 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Snowgirl Offline
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Thanks Truffle, I appreciate the information.

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#2045439 - 10/21/15 05:02 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Snowgirl Offline
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I asked this question of Compliance Alliance and they stated it would be considered face-to-face if the applicant physically entered our bank to deliver the application. Thoughts?

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#2045448 - 10/21/15 05:26 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Truffle Royale Offline

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Compliance Alliance is wrong.
Think about it.
How is handing a completed application to anyone at the bank the same as sitting down and filling it out line by line with an LO?
What if only one person comes in (likely scenario) and hands a teller an envelope with the application in it.
When you open it you find that the GMI is incomplete.
Now what do you do?
Face to face requires you to complete it the GMI based on observation but you didn't observe anything!
There's plenty of discussion on this over the years in the HMDA forum.

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#2045461 - 10/21/15 05:52 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Snowgirl Offline
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Perfect, thanks Truffle - makes sense. We are going to entering the HMDA world next year, so trying to get everything figured out ahead of time!

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#2045463 - 10/21/15 05:53 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Snowgirl Offline
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Just to clarify though, if the application is received at the branch and not the mortgage office, that is considered when it is received, not when the mortgage office receives it - correct?

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#2045496 - 10/21/15 06:56 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Truffle Royale Offline

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Yes, the receipt date is when the bank, not any specific department or person, gets the application.
I suggest you get a date stamp and make it part of your procedures to stamp the application the day it comes in if it's anything other than face to face.

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#2045523 - 10/21/15 08:12 PM Re: When is application considered received? Truffle Royale
Farm Girl Offline
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Missouri
But if you had an existing customer come in and speak to a loan officer and tell him/her they are thinking about buying property located at 123 Main St and they felt the value of the home was $XXX and only wanted to borrow $XXX, you very well could have an application at this point. That would be the case even though the LO will hand them the packet with the Application Form to be completed and they don't bring that back in until 3 or 4 days later. Once you have all 6 pieces of information in the definition of application, not necessarily the completed application form, that would start the clock ticking, correct? And if so, how are banks going to be monitoring that to be certain you are providing the LE, etc. within 3 days of receiving the application??

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#2045535 - 10/21/15 08:46 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Truffle Royale Offline

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Good question, Farm Girl.
A completed 1003 is not the only thing that can start the three day clock. As you outlined, you get the six items on a bar napkin or verbally or in an email and you've got three days to get the LE out.

My answer would be that the LO best be hightailing it back to their desk and grabbing a file folder and writing up everything discussed with the customer.
Then they have to rush that folder over to the processer to get the LE out in three days.

Hopefully that's not going to happen that often but even once in a while would warrant that it be addressed in your procedures so everyone knows.

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#2045556 - 10/21/15 10:44 PM Re: When is application considered received? Truffle Royale
Farm Girl Offline
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Posts: 31
Missouri
We are a in a rural area and know most of our customers. Customers are repeat borrowers mostly so they may just walk in or call the LO that has maybe been waiting on them for years and tell the LO they want to buy a new house. They would explain what they are looking at, how much, etc. and we would of course, already have their SS# and estimated income. Because they would tell the LO the address of the property, loan amount they are wanting and estimated value of the property, we would, at that point have an application. My problem is our loan officers never get in a hurry and no one in the bank will even know that customer was making an application until the LO gets all of the early disclosures and completed application form back and he decides to pass it on to the loan processors. I've done training after training on definition of "application" and it is not making any difference. I see the Loan Committee minutes where they report John Doe came in and is wanting to buy such and such property, etc. but when I review the loan after closing, the application date is always the same as the date the form is signed by the borrower. I even see where the date information after the customers signature is filled in by the LO! I'm just wondering if other banks have this problem and if they have a solution to monitoring dates applications are received.

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#2045560 - 10/22/15 04:00 AM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Truffle Royale Offline

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It's nearly impossible to teach old dogs new tricks.
Maybe you need to redefine the application process. Just because someone is a repeat customer doesn't mean you go dig up their SS# or estimated income.
This kind of situation is really hard because all you can do is document that you've told everyone (read that as Board) that this is wrong and dangerous and could result in corrective actions by examiners.
It won't protect you much when the brown stuff hits the oscillating unit but it's the best you can do.
That and take solace in the fact that at least they appear to be getting the application and disclosures in proper timing order even if the application date isn't really what it says it is.
crazy

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#2045578 - 10/22/15 01:25 PM Re: When is application considered received? Snowgirl
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Posts: 46,858
Bloomington, IN
But if you had an existing customer come in and speak to a loan officer and tell him/her they are thinking about buying property located at 123 Main St and they felt the value of the home was $XXX and only wanted to borrow $XXX, you very well could have an application at this point.

Or you could simply have an inquiry where the borrower is discussing options with their loan officer. Because you have the consumer's SSN and income in file from a previous transaction does not automatically deem you having an application for a new loan when the customer is simply in the inquiry stage before they decide if they want to apply.

You need to be diligent in your application process but don't make it more difficult than it has to be.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

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#2045713 - 10/22/15 07:21 PM Re: When is application considered received? Dan Persfull
Farm Girl Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 31
Missouri
Thank you Truffle and Dan for your responses. I guess when I see Loan Committee minutes from a week or two prior that states the exact information that creates an application, with the exception of SS# and income, then when the loan closes maybe 45 days later and application date noted on the app is several days later, it just proves to me they are not following the definition. Guess I'll just have to get over it and if anything becomes of it, I'll whip out my documentation of training and their signature of attendance. Truffle is right, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. With the exception of old compliance officers,.......we have certainly had to learn many new "tricks". smile

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