Ok- so the "observed holiday" rule is sort of confusing me today.
Just to clarify... the next 2 Mondays are in fact a federal holiday, therefore, they do not count toward a day for receipt of CloD, Right of rescission, initial 7-day waiting period etc...
Do the 2 Mondays count for the LE under the general business day rule?

Thank you -

You have it backwards. The 2 Mondays, if you are not open are not a general business days.

They are business days under the specific business day rules for CD delivery and RofR purposes.

Glad I asked...thank you, Randy.

Just to confirm.....when Christmas (or any other federal holiday) falls on a Sunday....there is no federal holiday for Christmas under the specific business day rule that year?

Four Federal legal holidays are identified in 5 U.S.C. 6103(a) by a specific date: New Year's Day, January 1; Independence Day, July 4; Veterans Day, November 11; and Christmas Day, December 25. When one of these holidays (July 4, for example) falls on a Saturday, Federal offices and other entities might observe the holiday on the preceding Friday (July 3). In cases where the more precise rule applies, the observed holiday (in the example, July 3) is a business day.

Thanks Randy.

For the LE estimated closing costs expiration - if we are not open on the 26th or 2nd, do we exclude them when counting the 10 business days for expiration? For whatever reason, our loan system is including at least 1 of those 2 days in the 10 days even though we are not open for business. For example, an LE issued on December 20, 2016 is showing an expiration of 1/4/2017 but I am thinking it would be 1/5/2017. Thanks in advance!

Just FYI - an FDIC examiner just told a fellow compliance officer that Dec 26th and Jan 2nd should not be counted as one of the days for rescission. I have sent a question to our OCC contact but have not heard back yet.

Randy, any ideas what we should do if we have CD's that have been issued with the 26th counted as a day of rescission? Just delay disbursement? could we re-issue the CD at closing with the dates corrected?

We figured out the problem - lender had "locked in" the expiration date yesterday so when we "unlocked" the field the system calculated 1/5/17 as we had expected. Good news - the system is correctly excluding both days we are closed.

Oh geez. I have not been discounting those made up off days in the 10 day count. Just ridiculous to have so many" but if's".

The comment in Reg Z (comment 2(a)(6)-2) creates this confusion. If you read it carefully, it only indicates that when one of the four holidays that are specified as falling on a specific date (January 1, July 4, November 11 and December 25) falls on Saturday, the day before (Friday) is a business day for the specific definition even if federal offices and others -- including your bank -- observe the holiday on Friday). There is no mention of how to treat Monday if the designated date for one of these holidays is a Sunday and the holiday is observed on Monday.

What. A. Mess. So we should pick a stance and go with it?
Our "new" LOS is not acknowledging the next two Mondays as a specific business day. But i have written into procedures that we count the day as a specific business day...
In my particular circumstance (today...lol) we have a loan that "has to close" on Tuesday because the rate lock is expiring- but the LOS will not count Monday (CD was mailed the 20th)...LOS is stating the earliest to close is the 28th. I need Tylenol.

Disregard my post immediately above- I walked into a storm this AM and confused myself all over again. Randy answered my question.

I agree with Randy, as well as John. I would have preferred the commentary to address the situation where a holiday falls on a Sunday and the observed day is a Monday. However, since they didn't do that, then we have to go with what is currently existing. I am under the belief that the 26th and the 2nd are both Specific Business Days and can be counted when calculation Closing Disclosures, etc.

Also, the business day definition for the Right of Rescission is the same as that for consummation after receiving a Closing Disclosure, so I don't know why the FDIC examiner is making that statement (FDIC sucks . . . OCC Bias here, lol). I don't know why they would make a distinguish between one situation and the other, if that is what is going on, when the Regulation lumps them into the same definition. If they think you shouldn't count in both situations, then I would say that the current commentary indicates the observed holiday is a specific business day.

Raitchjay - It's not that there is no Federal Holiday for Christmas, it's just that the Federal Holiday is a Sunday, which would be an excluded day anyway. They just happen to coincide in certain years.

Well....semantics i guess. To me, if your "holiday" is Sunday, you don't really have a holiday, since Sunday is a non-work day anyway.

That's why I don't like the Saturday/Friday example in the commentary. But, that's all we have to roll with at the moment.

It is an example people. it doesn't say a rule:

"When one of these holidays (July 4, for example) falls on a Saturday, Federal offices and other entities might observe the holiday on the preceding Friday (July 3). "

They might or they might not or if on Sunday they might observe Monday.

Saturday observed on Friday, Sunday observed on Monday - there is no difference.

It feels different because Saturday CAN be a business day anyway....Sunday is never a business day. At least, that's my thought.

Agree with Randy. It is just an example. The real point is that the applicable federal statute (cited by Randy) specifies that the Christmas holiday is December 25 and the New Year's holiday is January 1. It does not matter when any federal or state agency elects to "observe" that holiday - the statute says Dec. 25 and January 1.

I agree to a point, and that is how I run Compliance; however, I have the same problem that Raitchjay has. Sunday is not a Specific Business Day under the Reg., while Saturday is.

OK - December 25 and Sunday is not a business day. That's the end of the story. There are no provisions in the regulation for any other day to not be counted.

"Sunday is not a Specific Business Day under the Reg.,"

And neither are January 1, July 4, November 11 or December 25 regardless what day they fall on and the day before or after those specific dates, unless that day is a Sunday, are business days.

Like I said, I understand the arguments and use that method. I just don't necessarily agree with it because in essence the Holiday isn't having any impact.

What's there not to agree with? It's one of the specific days that doesn't get to change just because it's on an always off day. I think it's odd though since the mail won't be delivered either.

Do you think the rule writers ever consider that there are groups of bankers discussing whether an observed Christmas holiday is a business day? I bet it never crosses their minds how specifically we read the rules and adhere to them.