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#2119294 - 02/23/17 06:47 PM Sick days - what is considered excessive
HRH Okie Banker Offline
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Outside of serious illness/FMLA what do you deem to be excessive? What is the norm? How do you get that "norm" across to your staff?
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#2119309 - 02/23/17 07:18 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
raitchjay Online
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OK
Not sure i'm following, or maybe we're just not normal here....but "excessive" would be more days sick (or gone for whatever reason) than you have available as an individual for PTO.
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#2119341 - 02/23/17 08:40 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
osucpa Offline
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Give us a little more insight than just a rant.

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#2119351 - 02/23/17 09:44 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
raitchjay Online
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Me or the OP? I'm not sure i have any more insight....
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#2119353 - 02/23/17 09:58 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
ItNeverEnds CRCM Offline
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In my past, I've worked for some FIs (banks and credit unions) that have very specific attendance policies. I'm mostly talking about non-exempt people here because exempt is an entirely different story. Your FI needs to decide what it deems to be an absence, a tardiness and an "occurrence". Places I have worked typically have a set amount of occurrences (example: I'm out for 2 days because of the flu = 1 occurrence) and an amount of days. Typically it's written as X occurrences in a rolling X days/months and/or X days in a rolling X months. So that either multiple occurrences or a total number of days can be deemed excessive. One FI I worked at had it set for 3 occurrences in a rolling 3 months and/or 8 days in a rolling 12 months.
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#2119387 - 02/24/17 02:54 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
HRH Okie Banker Offline
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Good eye osucpa! It really was a combo rant and question. I'm wondering was the "norm" is for sick days per employee per year. Not what you've earned but what it actual taken. I'm talking outside of obvious gallbladder surgery or FMLA coverage. What is the norm/average and do you get that across to your peeps. Are you okay with people taking 12 days a year or 16 days a year or 6 seems more the normal in our industry. Am I ranting again?
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#2119398 - 02/24/17 03:17 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
Amandak Offline
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It really depends on ones situation. Two years ago I took 12 days of sick leave, some of my sick days were actually mental health days because I was going through a rough patch in my life. Last year I took 3 days. Remember "normal" is just a setting on the wash machine.

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#2119404 - 02/24/17 03:36 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
I cannot imagine trying to enforce a policy that allows employees to accrue more PTO per year than the employer is actually willing to allow them to take.
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#2119405 - 02/24/17 03:38 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
raitchjay Online
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OK
That ^^^ is what i was trying to say.
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#2119408 - 02/24/17 03:47 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
HRH Okie Banker Offline
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Never mind. I'm not getting this across.
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#2119423 - 02/24/17 04:07 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
I think I get your question...

we have what we consider an "occurrence". an occurrence is defined as being out of work ill (so if you are out 3 consecutive days, Monday-Wednesday, it is 1 occurrence, but if you are out sick Monday, work, tuesday, sick wednesday, that is 2 occurrences). also, 2 instances of being tardy is considered 1 occurrence.

on the 5th occurrence in a rolling 12-month period, you are verbally counseled
on the 6th, written warning
7th is final warning
8th you are terminated

it is covered in our handbook, employee signs an acknowledgment annually.
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#2119441 - 02/24/17 05:03 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
Oooooooh...OK. So it's not that they are taking too many days in total, it's that they are taking them too frequently - possibly without real cause? Is that what you're getting at? I would think that would be a difficult thing to police effectively.

I actually had a friend get fired for 'excessive tardiness' because she was less than 5 minutes late more than a certain number of times. She sued for wrongful termination and won because the tardiness was caused by a medical condition (poorly controlled asthma, she was having to pull over and do breathing treatments on her way to work a lot of mornings).
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#2119442 - 02/24/17 05:10 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
Docs Offline
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"Outside of serious illness/FMLA what do you deem to be excessive? What is the norm? How do you get that "norm" across to your staff?'

I think Happy has the best response (above). OP appears to be looking for what specific sick day rules other FIs have so they have some ideas to use when implementing their own policy. Ultimately "excessive" is defined by the FI setting the rules, and one way of getting that rule across to staff would be as Happy noted above.
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#2119449 - 02/24/17 05:31 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HappyGilmore
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At my previous FI, what Happy has stated above is almost exactly what we had except ours was 5 occurrences in a 6-month period was deemed excessive.

I was responsible for supervising 30+ loan processors and our 'abusers' were less than 1% so the 'peeps' got the picture. As Happy stated, having it in the handbook and acknowledged by the employees is the way to go


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#2119497 - 02/24/17 07:46 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
HRH Okie Banker Offline
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Thanks. Your comments helped. Our sick days add up to short term disability - max you can accrued is 12 weeks. Then it goes into our LTD plan.

So you may earn a certain amount of days in a year but that doesn't mean you need to take them. It also takes away from their job and the fact that someone may have to cover - thereby stretching resources.
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#2119583 - 02/27/17 02:16 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
#Just Jay Online
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What is perceived as a benefit by some, isn't also seen as such by others. That is the risk an employer takes on by putting a benefit plan that encourages the prudent/reduced use of sick in exchange for a potential healthy bank of sick time in the future: some employees are going to make a risk assessment and determine for themselves that they would rather have the use of the time incrementally now rather than risk banking the time and not getting sick later on, thus perceiving that they 'lost' their benefit.

I often feel such a plan also encourages sick employees to come into work when ill rather than stay home and get well as they see the benefit to themselves go in the other direction as they don't want to have to worry about providing for their family in the event they get seriously ill in the future. In the mean time, they just make others sick in your office which also has the net effect of stretching resources as you describe above.

But in the end, a firm should not offer a benefit that it is not prepared to have employees to take advantage of, however they define that to be. If you are not prepared for an employee to take 20 sick days a year, then don't allow them to accrue 20 sick days a year.
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#2119606 - 02/27/17 03:52 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
Soccer Offline
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"But in the end, a firm should not offer a benefit that it is not prepared to have employees to take advantage of, however they define that to be. If you are not prepared for an employee to take 20 sick days a year, then don't allow them to accrue 20 sick days a year."

Well said^^^^

I could never understand when I participated in employee reviews, why there would be mention of sick time used annually if it was within the number of days allowed. To me it sent the message, here are the days, but do not even think of using them.
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#2119607 - 02/27/17 03:58 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
raitchjay Online
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This is why i think PTO days are a good method...you're sick....you want a vacation...you just don't want to be at work today....doesn't matter what the reason is, here are your 15/20/25/30 PTO days....use them as you see fit (but don't run out).
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#2119609 - 02/27/17 04:14 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive raitchjay
fmissle Online
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Originally Posted By raitchjay
This is why i think PTO days are a good method...you're sick....you want a vacation...you just don't want to be at work today....doesn't matter what the reason is, here are your 15/20/25/30 PTO days....use them as you see fit (but don't run out).

This is basically what I tell me staff.
Unless you know that we're busy, shorthanded, or there's a big project... just tell me you won't be in.

I don't need to hear about your trips to the restroom, diet during the sick time, that you couldn't sleep last night because you had a nightmare about something, that little johnny needs to go to the dr..... just tell me you won't be in.

While we all have important jobs, we're not saving the world. We're bankers of some sort and most things can wait another day.

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#2119773 - 02/28/17 03:54 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
Christine81 Offline
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I have found in the past that if there is PTO time versus sick/vacation time, many staff members work when they are sick, therefore infecting others, as they want to save the PTO time for vacation or something more fun than being sick. Definitely pros and cons to both ways.

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#2119788 - 02/28/17 04:39 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
raitchjay Online
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OK
If you have "sick" days, must you actually be sick to use them? If so, how do you police it? Just curious.

I am very, very rarely sick--i wouldn't want to either lose or have to bank sick days.
Last edited by raitchjay; 02/28/17 04:42 PM.
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#2119824 - 02/28/17 06:01 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
Truffle Royale Offline

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We have Vacation time and Unscheduled Absence time here. UA time follows the same criteria as raitchjay outlined: sick; need to wait for washer repair man; 'mental health' day. Earned by the month.

Recently went to a 'use it or lose it' vacation policy too. Can only carry over 1 week that must be used within the first quarter of the next year.

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#2119838 - 02/28/17 06:22 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive HRH Okie Banker
MScarn6942 Offline
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Land Lacking in Lakes, IL
We have vacation time and "personal days." Max of 6 personal days per year. If you don't use them, they're banked at your current daily salary and paid out when you leave the bank if it's on good terms. People use it as vacation sometimes, but it doesn't really bother me as long as their work is getting done.

We don't get our third week of vacation until 10 years of employment, though... frown
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#2119864 - 02/28/17 08:08 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive MScarn6942
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In 2015 we went from vacation/sick/personal days to lumping them all into personal time off (PTO). I love it, because now I don't have to play detective and determine if the person really is or is not sick; just tell me--in advance--that you won't be in, and I'll mark it down. Some of my employees have been very responsible in their use of PTO, and end up having carryover days at the end of the year. Others seem to run though them as fast as they can, and when we warn them that they are in danger of using all their PTO early, they get testy.

Personally, I like the PTO concept. I almost never get sick, so giving me all those sick days was of no benefit to me. But if I have PTO, I'll usually find a way to use it (although last year I did lose a couple days).
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#2119898 - 02/28/17 08:57 PM Re: Sick days - what is considered excessive Sinatra Fan
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Same here PTO days. I like it a lot, just one bucket use it. We can carry over 40hrs a year rest you lose. I manage to attempt to use it all. I always have carryover though.

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