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#2136500 - 06/29/17 07:04 PM CTR Common Conductor Question
ramblings Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78
Ok, so I work with a group of 5 BSAOs and we go back and forth on this. My area of oversight is CTR specific. Here's the question.

Do you consider a husband and wife listed on a joint personal account both benefitting from any transaction or aggregated transactions that are CTR reportable as a common conductor CTR? Some of us say yes, some say no...I just want a feel for others in the industry.

The argument for yes is that it is 2 people benefitting from the transaction(s), even if either husband or wife conducted the transaction(s).

The argument for no is that it's a single account with 2 owners that is listed on the CTR.

How do you treat this at your institution.

***For what it's worth, it doesn't make a difference on the filings, we are just trying to nail down expectations for documentation internally in this scenario.***

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#2136504 - 06/29/17 07:13 PM Re: CTR Common Conductor Question ramblings
BrianC Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,466
See FinCEN CTR FAQ #23 & #24.

If your question relates to a deposit to a joint account, there is no debate. All account owners are included on the CTR.

If you question relates to a withdrawal from a joint account, you will not find a consensus. Some institutions elect to file on withdrawals the same as they do deposits since the FAQ permits this. Some elect to file only based on their knowledge of the transaction and who was physically at the teller window. Document your decision in your BSA procedures and stay consistent.
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria!

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#2136505 - 06/29/17 07:16 PM Re: CTR Common Conductor Question ramblings
PrimeTime Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 173
I assume we're talking withdrawals here correct? Obviously for deposits they'd both be benefitting unless I read everything wrong.

I'm big on the phrase "who is at your window" in terms of beneficiaries on cash withdrawal transactions -- so for example the husband comes in to withdraw cash on that account and walks you know for a fact that the wife benefitted? Unless he mentioned something about the use of the cash during the transaction you have no knowledge that the wife benefitted; for all you know he walked out of the bank and bought himself an $11,000 steak and ate it himself (just illustrating, I know that seems absurd) -- obviously at no benefit to the wife.
Life is like a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
-Albert Einstein


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#2136506 - 06/29/17 07:19 PM Re: CTR Common Conductor Question ramblings
ramblings Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78
We are talking about title of the CTR only. If it were a deposit, all beneficiaries are listed. There is not an argument in this.

If it's a withdraw, we file under the person at the window unless we know that the spouse is also benefitting.

It's simply whether we call it a common conductor CTR or not. It is simply for how we document the CTR and what we expect the analysts to do in the documentation of our core records.
Last edited by ramblings; 06/29/17 07:21 PM.
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#2136699 - 07/03/17 10:28 AM Re: CTR Common Conductor Question ramblings
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Any convention on naming CTRs is purely internal; your group is qualified to decide. I would suggest that the H & W relationship a) isn't obvious, b) isn't likely to be reflected in deposit account records, and c) is completely, totally irrelevant to CTR completion. Anyone who's been married more than 6 months knows husband and wife are two different people. wink
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

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#2136755 - 07/03/17 03:43 PM Re: CTR Common Conductor Question ramblings
ramblings Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78
That was my thought but I've gotten pushback. Some seem to think they are not two different people and are one entity. While that works in some faucets of life, I am not sure CTR reporting is one... wink

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