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#2033386 - 08/12/15 08:28 PM Electronic Mortgage Recording fee
Rusty Banker Offline
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We electronically file our Mortgage directly with the County Register of Deeds using a 3rd party provider software (and not through a title company). The fee assessed by the provider is paid by the borrower.

What section of the LE should this fee be included in? I have not found any specific examples anywhere. Thanks for the help.
Last edited by Rusty Banker; 08/12/15 08:29 PM.
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TRID - TILA/RESPA Integrated Disclosures Rule
#2033428 - 08/12/15 11:59 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Lakeminded Offline
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We have two different "like" categories for this fee as we have seen it on HUD's listed multiple ways. For TRID purposes: it depends upon who is the ultimate recipient of the fee. If the fee is paid to a government official it is aggregated with the recording costs. If the recipient is other than the lender, we are considering this as a fee the Borrower Cannot Shop For-Category B. Which carries no variance without a valid change circumstance.
1026.37(g)
(1) Taxes and other government fees. Under the subheading “Taxes and Other Government Fees,” the amounts to be paid to State and local governments for taxes and other government fees, and the subtotal of all such amounts, as follows:
(i) On the first line, the sum of all recording fees and other government fees and taxes, except for transfer taxes paid by the consumer and disclosed pursuant to paragraph (g)(1)(ii) of this section, labeled “Recording Fees and Other Taxes.”

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#2033450 - 08/13/15 01:17 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Dan Persfull Offline
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The fee assessed by the provider is paid by the borrower.

This would IMO be a fee the borrower cannot shop for.

The fee is being paid to the vendor, not a government official. It would be a PPFC.
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#2033456 - 08/13/15 01:22 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Lakeminded
Rusty Banker Offline
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Thank you for the response. This confirms my thinking also since the fee is not paid to a state or local government it belongs in section B.

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#2033489 - 08/13/15 02:25 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
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In regards to whether it is a PPFC, I was thinking that it would not be a PPFC as the service provided is to assist in preparing the mortgage/deed for filing to meet county requirements (formatting, margins...)and to file the mortgage. I was looking at 1026.4(c)(7)(ii).

(7) Real-estate related fees. The following fees in a transaction secured by real property or in a residential mortgage transaction, if the fees are bona fide and reasonable in amount:

(i) Fees for title examination, abstract of title, title insurance, property survey, and similar purposes.
(ii) Fees for preparing loan-related documents, such as deeds, mortgages, and reconveyance or settlement documents.
(iii) Notary and credit-report fees.
(iv) Property appraisal fees or fees for inspections to assess the value or condition of the property if the service is performed prior to closing, including fees related to pest-infestation or flood-hazard determinations.
(v) Amounts required to be paid into escrow or trustee accounts if the amounts would not otherwise be included in the finance charge.
[b][/b]

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#2033529 - 08/13/15 03:26 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Dan Persfull Offline
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Go to 1026.4(e) and its Commentary. This fee is being paid to a vendor for their services. It is not being paid to government officials to file the security agreement.
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#2033576 - 08/13/15 05:44 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
RR Joker Offline
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We have a similar service required by the state to electronically file our titles. We handle it as Dan has described, only since we pay it...we do not throw it into the ppfc bucket.
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#2033603 - 08/13/15 06:32 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Rusty Banker Offline
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Thanks for all the input. Very helpful.

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#2039286 - 09/18/15 04:15 AM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Tesla Offline
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Is the recording fee a zero tolerance item or 10% tolerance item? The title company sends directly to the county recorder and there is no additional charge.
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#2039903 - 09/22/15 04:14 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
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Bump.
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#2040259 - 09/24/15 03:29 AM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Rusty Banker Offline
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We are including the e-recording fee in Section B (zero tolerance). The fee is paid to a 3rd party and is filed directly with the county.
Last edited by Rusty Banker; 09/24/15 03:36 AM.
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#2041336 - 09/29/15 07:54 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Dan Persfull
Norman Paperman Offline
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Originally Posted By Dan Persfull
Go to 1026.4(e) and its Commentary. This fee is being paid to a vendor for their services. It is not being paid to government officials to file the security agreement.


I'm just now diving into this one.

Let's say we pay E-File Mortgage (fictitious) $100 to E-File the Mortgage.
The $100 is actually paid to E-File who remits $95 to the County and retains their $5 fee.

Am I correct in that we would list the $5 as a PPFC and the $95 as a non-PPFC Recording Fee?
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#2139499 - 07/25/17 09:58 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
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We're seeing this fee more in our files.

If the county doesn't require the Mortgage to be filed electronically, then isn't that considered a service WE don't require so therefore it wouldn't be disclosed in Section B? We require the mortgage to be filed but it's the title co that's utilizing a service.

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#2139501 - 07/25/17 10:13 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
rlcarey Offline
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If you allow then to shop and they select your preferred provider, then you should be disclosing the fee in Section C. If it isn't your provider, then it isn't subject to a tolerance test anyway.
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#2139508 - 07/25/17 10:28 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
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I think where I'm getting hung up on this is it's not a service we require (and neither does county). Sections B & C are services we require and either we allowed them to shop or didn't allow it. If we didn't require the service but the title co is utilizing the electronic option, wouldn't the electronic recording fee be disclosed in Section H?

Another county down the road DOES require the mortgage to be filed electronically so I have it in my head that we'd have to require that service as well so Section B or C??

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#2139509 - 07/25/17 10:34 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
rlcarey Offline
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If you allow them to shop for services and your preferred title company charges them for this service regardless of whether you require it or not - it goes in Section C - along with every other junk fee that they choose to assess on the consumer. The customer doesn't have a choice if they go with your provider. If they go with someone else, it is the same thing.
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#2139517 - 07/25/17 11:07 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
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Yep, now that you put it that way, I've got it. Thanks!

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#2141136 - 08/07/17 08:55 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee BA13
MonicaMc Offline
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This is the same issue that was brought up to us during our last audit. That since we don't require it, it should be in B and not in C. But I went the same route as what Randy is saying and explained that its a title company fee and the borrower was allowed to shop for the title company, so it is a shoppable fee. They were not thrilled with that answer.

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#2141251 - 08/08/17 07:02 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Brightside3277 Offline
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Oklahoma
We have only recently started seeing this fee, and found out it is a third-party charge. Would you say that the fee should be disclosed as a pre-paid finance charge, since the service is done after closing? We have been going back and forth, and there doesn't seem to be any clear direction.
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#2186596 - 07/24/18 03:13 PM Re: Electronic Mortgage Recording fee Rusty Banker
Compliance NABW Offline
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Because I came across the thread in my own search, here is my two cents on the issue:

It all comes down to the language in TRID that requires the Closing Disclosure to show the "the name of the person ultimately receiving the payment for each such amount" regarding closing costs and how far lenders are supposed to take this general command. My understanding for this fee is that it depends on whether or not the title company is taking a cut for the fee or if it is just a direct transfer to the County or other government entity assessing the fee. In other words, if the Recording fee at the County is $100 and the E-Recording fee the title company charges is similarly $100, then my take is list the entire fee in Section E as a recording fee. However, if the Recording fee with the County is $90 and the E-Recording fee assessed by the Title Company is $100, then you list $90 as a recording fee in Section E and then $10 as an E-Recording fee in Section C (if they didn't select your WPL/SSPL title company) or Section B (if they did select your WPL/SSPL title company). This is similarly how you would treat the APR Finance Charge calculation for this fee.

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