Borrower chose own attorney to do their title opinion, wants his fee listed as POC. Okay, but escrow company that prepares the final CD says they need an invoice reflecting the amount. Attorney won't provide, and insists that the line can be left blank with the POC notation, that's what he always does, and everyone "misunderstands the rules in thinking the amount needs to be there". He's clearly wrong, and I agree with the escrow company. Aside from referencing 1026.38(j)(4)(i) and the fact that the CD is to reflect all costs of the transaction, any other recommended references?

(4)Items paid outside of closing funds.

(i) Costs that are not paid from closing funds but that would otherwise be disclosed in the table required pursuant to paragraph (j) of this section, should be marked with the phrase “Paid Outside of Closing” or the abbreviation “P.O.C.” and include the name of the party making the payment.

A fee for a title opinion goes in Section B or C, depending on whether the borrower could shop, paid outside of closing or not since it was a required service by the lender. If it was not a service required by the lender, then it would go in Section H.

2/3rds of the parties involved agree, it's to go in C, POC with the dollar amount. Their attorney needs convincing that the amount is required and won't provide it as it's not finalized and won't be until after closing. (We're an abstracting state and final title opinions aren't completed before closing generally). He should still have standard fees and be able to provide a solid estimate though, just refuses to.

Tell the borrower that the attorney they have chosen is not cooperating with you and that unless he does, you are not going to close the loan. The loan is yours and not his. He doesn't get a say on how you disclose the loan or what you need to do it. He is solely a service provider.

I'm hoping to not give up on the attorney too quickly, as the loan is to close next week and we'd definitely prefer to persuade the attorney and educate over adversely impacting the buyers, but that may be the eventual result. Guess we'll see. I'm sure he'll take the "it doesn't say I have to" stance while we're going "it doesn't say you don't have to" one.

Don't forget that, if you can't get the number from that belligerent barrister, you can obtain the amount from your borrower if necessary. Mark it as an estimate on the closing disclosure if you have to. And it does not, as the adamantine attorney claims, get labeled using P.O.C. Instead, if the dollar amount is paid from closing funds, it is included as other such costs are included, in the Borrower's Paid at Closing column (in Section C, as pointed out earlier). If the bill was paid earlier (so that closing funds won't be used), it goes in the "Paid before Closing" column.

Apologies for the thesaurus adjectives. I was trying to call the attorney a jackass without violating our "banned words" protocols.

The other thing you might remind that attorney is that, although the borrower selected him, the lender is the client for whom the title opinion is rendered, so he's working for you, not for the borrower. And if he wants to be considered for title work in the future, he'd better provide the cost figure that you need for the closing documents.

Thanks John, I appreciate the colorful legalese just as much as the rest of the content!

To make matters worse, I ended up finding that we initially disclosed the fees in section B of the LE, and now they're wanting to put it in C on the CD...and that just isn't how any of this works. He's still putting up a fight, won't provide it to the borrowers either, and now the escrow company's attorney is contacting a managing partner at the firm to have them talk to this young buck whose license isn't even a year old apparently. Best course of action now is to stick with the LE amounts, cut a check at closing, and call it a day.

Of course he's also the attorney preparing the deed, given that he's a family friend and sale is from parents to son & daughter-in-law, so he's just messing things up all over the place for us.

So is this attorney just trying to cut a deal for the family? That might explain his reticence about providing an actual invoice.

Don't discount the borrowers as potential leverage in getting this twit on the straight and narrow. If they knew what problems he is causing, they might just tell him to stop his posturing and get with the program.

Perhaps the attorney doesn't want anyone to know how much he is making off this deal.