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#2152704 - 11/08/17 05:58 PM
How to verify hand delivery date?
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,403
California
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We hand-delivered a Loan Estimate to an applicant on XX date. The applicant took it home to read, brought it back a few days later and signed it. Our investor says they consider the date of delivery to be the date signed - so they say we delivered the LE late. We have no other proof than the LO's word and note to file that it was hand delivered on XX date. (Our investor requires a signature on the LE, so we set them up that way.)
Since the timing requirement was met (we hand delivered within 3 business days), and we don't need to worry about the 7-day waiting period before consummation since the loan isn't that far along yet, there are no compliance issues with the borrower signing it a couple days later, right? The "Confirm Receipt" language above the signature lines says that by signing they are confirming that they received the LE - not confirming that they received it within 3 days of application.
Have others had issues with hand delivery? How do you verify to an investor that the date of hand delivery was within 3 days?
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#2152707 - 11/08/17 06:02 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,654
The Swamp
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I developed an acknowledgment for for use with both CD's and appraisals. We don't have our LE's signed, but I'm not selling to an investor.
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My opinion only. Not legal advice. Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour
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#2152712 - 11/08/17 06:12 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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Gold Star
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 499
Northern California
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We don't require CD's to be signed in general. The vast majority of ours are also mailed. In order to prevent issues with closing, we have instituted a procedure whereby if a CD is delivered in person, we ask the customer to sign and date our copy with a notation that it was hand delivered. If it's not signed, dated, and noted, we assume it was mailed, and proceed with timing based on that assumption.
The reg requires that the disclosures be provided in a form the consumer can keep, so if the consumer is returning their copy to you with the signature, is that not an issue?
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#2152731 - 11/08/17 07:25 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
mtngrrl
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Power Poster
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,658
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The reg requires that the disclosures be provided in a form the consumer can keep, so if the consumer is returning their copy to you with the signature, is that not an issue? I agree with you mtngrrl that based on what the OP stated, it appears their procedure could be problematic. In reading what was originally provided, it sounds like they are requiring the applicant to return their only copy. However, that may not be the full procedure for the OP (such as they may provide them two copies) as every institution proves delivery in a slightly different way. As Truffle stated, it is a best practice to have a written procedure that everyone follows - just as long as the procedure complies with the rules.
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Adam Witmer, CRCM All statements are my opinion, not those of my employer, and should not be taken as legal advice. www.compliancecohort.com
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#2152769 - 11/08/17 09:54 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 25
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And if you need a receipt or acknowledgment for a hand-delivered disclosure, by all means have it signed at the time of delivery, not days later.
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#2152772 - 11/08/17 10:16 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,403
California
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Thank you all - your comments have been very helpful!
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#2152779 - 11/08/17 10:50 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 78
Anywhere but here
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I'm a fellow correspondent lender so I feel your pain. Do you ever mail copies of the LE? If so, how is that documented? We are old school and still either mail or hand deliver all of our LEs. The mailed ones are rarely signed and dated within 3 days of application but the LE is dated and mailed within that time frame. Our investors have no issues with this. They use the date the LE is issued as the day it was presented to the borrower either by mail or in person. We've not had any of our investors question this procedure. I would suggest a LOX explaining the date of hand delivery and why the signed date is different. It shouldn't be an issue. This happens on the majority of our files. Hope this helps and good luck.
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#2152911 - 11/09/17 08:08 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
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The LE timing is tied to delivery or placing it in the mail, not receipt. Within three general definition business days of receipt of the application, and not later than the seventh precise-definition business day before consummation. Timing of receipt of the LE is critical only with regard to determining when you can start assessing fees other than a fee for the credit report.
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John S. Burnett BankersOnline.com Fighting for Compliance since 1976 Bankers' Threads User #8
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#2152912 - 11/09/17 08:17 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,086
OK
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I think the problem is this bit of investor goofiness...." Our investor says they consider the date of delivery to be the date signed".
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#2152913 - 11/09/17 08:18 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
pjs
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,086
OK
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We write hand delivered and the date and the initials of the loan officer who delivered it to the borrower in the upper right hand corner of the LE. Well, the person who delivered it (loan officer) does the writing. Are you writing ON the LE itself? That's a no-no, isn't it?
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I'm fixin' to fix that.
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#2152917 - 11/09/17 08:21 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,219
Galveston, TX
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Well, we all know the shenanigans that loan officer's pull to make their files look like they comply with regulatory requirements (add, delete, change documents after the fact). An investor wants to only buy squeaky clean files. As such, they have many rules that are over and above the regulatory requirements. Goofiness or not, it is their money on the line.
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The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com
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#2152919 - 11/09/17 08:24 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,086
OK
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I understand that Randy....but if you mail the LE, and have your LE's signed for receipt.....then the LE's will always (in this investor's world) "be late" (unless you issued the LE on day zero).
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I'm fixin' to fix that.
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#2152920 - 11/09/17 08:27 PM
Re: How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,086
OK
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I guess i'm saying, IF you have your LE's signed (not saying you should), having them signed and dated for the date of delivery when the date of receipt was later.....THAT seems like encouraging the kind of fudging that the investors state they don't want by asking for a squeaky clean file.
Last edited by raitchjay; 11/09/17 08:49 PM.
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I'm fixin' to fix that.
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