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#2152704 - 11/08/17 05:58 PM How to verify hand delivery date?
Tarhe Offline
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California
We hand-delivered a Loan Estimate to an applicant on XX date. The applicant took it home to read, brought it back a few days later and signed it. Our investor says they consider the date of delivery to be the date signed - so they say we delivered the LE late. We have no other proof than the LO's word and note to file that it was hand delivered on XX date. (Our investor requires a signature on the LE, so we set them up that way.)

Since the timing requirement was met (we hand delivered within 3 business days), and we don't need to worry about the 7-day waiting period before consummation since the loan isn't that far along yet, there are no compliance issues with the borrower signing it a couple days later, right? The "Confirm Receipt" language above the signature lines says that by signing they are confirming that they received the LE - not confirming that they received it within 3 days of application.

Have others had issues with hand delivery? How do you verify to an investor that the date of hand delivery was within 3 days?

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#2152706 - 11/08/17 06:02 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
Truffle Royale Offline

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This is strictly an investor requirement, an a really dumb one at that. There is no regulatory requirement that an LE be signed at all. But it goes along with investor requirements that the delivery CD be signed.
We got embroiled in the same thing until we finally went with a memo to the file that shows when and by what method the LE was delivered.
Honestly, the vast majority of our LEs are mailed so they are rarely signed within the three day window.

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#2152707 - 11/08/17 06:02 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
RR Joker Offline
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I developed an acknowledgment for for use with both CD's and appraisals. We don't have our LE's signed, but I'm not selling to an investor.
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#2152712 - 11/08/17 06:12 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
mtngrrl Offline
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We don't require CD's to be signed in general. The vast majority of ours are also mailed. In order to prevent issues with closing, we have instituted a procedure whereby if a CD is delivered in person, we ask the customer to sign and date our copy with a notation that it was hand delivered. If it's not signed, dated, and noted, we assume it was mailed, and proceed with timing based on that assumption.

The reg requires that the disclosures be provided in a form the consumer can keep, so if the consumer is returning their copy to you with the signature, is that not an issue?
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#2152727 - 11/08/17 06:54 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
Truffle Royale Offline

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As the OP stated, this is an investor requirement so how you handle things for loans you keep is totally up to you.
imo, having a written procedure would be best both for internal consistency and defense with examiners.

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#2152731 - 11/08/17 07:25 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? mtngrrl
Adam Witmer Offline
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Originally Posted By mtngrrl
The reg requires that the disclosures be provided in a form the consumer can keep, so if the consumer is returning their copy to you with the signature, is that not an issue?


I agree with you mtngrrl that based on what the OP stated, it appears their procedure could be problematic. In reading what was originally provided, it sounds like they are requiring the applicant to return their only copy. However, that may not be the full procedure for the OP (such as they may provide them two copies) as every institution proves delivery in a slightly different way.

As Truffle stated, it is a best practice to have a written procedure that everyone follows - just as long as the procedure complies with the rules.
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#2152769 - 11/08/17 09:54 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
CC Poppy Offline
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And if you need a receipt or acknowledgment for a hand-delivered disclosure, by all means have it signed at the time of delivery, not days later.

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#2152772 - 11/08/17 10:16 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
Tarhe Offline
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California
Thank you all - your comments have been very helpful!

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#2152779 - 11/08/17 10:50 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
RolTyde Offline
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Anywhere but here
I'm a fellow correspondent lender so I feel your pain. Do you ever mail copies of the LE? If so, how is that documented? We are old school and still either mail or hand deliver all of our LEs. The mailed ones are rarely signed and dated within 3 days of application but the LE is dated and mailed within that time frame. Our investors have no issues with this. They use the date the LE is issued as the day it was presented to the borrower either by mail or in person. We've not had any of our investors question this procedure. I would suggest a LOX explaining the date of hand delivery and why the signed date is different. It shouldn't be an issue. This happens on the majority of our files. Hope this helps and good luck.

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#2152868 - 11/09/17 05:21 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? RolTyde
pjs Offline
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We write hand delivered and the date and the initials of the loan officer who delivered it to the borrower in the upper right hand corner of the LE. Well, the person who delivered it (loan officer) does the writing.

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#2152911 - 11/09/17 08:08 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
John Burnett Offline
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The LE timing is tied to delivery or placing it in the mail, not receipt. Within three general definition business days of receipt of the application, and not later than the seventh precise-definition business day before consummation. Timing of receipt of the LE is critical only with regard to determining when you can start assessing fees other than a fee for the credit report.
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#2152912 - 11/09/17 08:17 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
raitchjay Offline
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I think the problem is this bit of investor goofiness...." Our investor says they consider the date of delivery to be the date signed".
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#2152913 - 11/09/17 08:18 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? pjs
raitchjay Offline
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Originally Posted By pjs
We write hand delivered and the date and the initials of the loan officer who delivered it to the borrower in the upper right hand corner of the LE. Well, the person who delivered it (loan officer) does the writing.


Are you writing ON the LE itself? That's a no-no, isn't it?
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#2152917 - 11/09/17 08:21 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
rlcarey Online
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Well, we all know the shenanigans that loan officer's pull to make their files look like they comply with regulatory requirements (add, delete, change documents after the fact). An investor wants to only buy squeaky clean files. As such, they have many rules that are over and above the regulatory requirements. Goofiness or not, it is their money on the line.
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#2152919 - 11/09/17 08:24 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
raitchjay Offline
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I understand that Randy....but if you mail the LE, and have your LE's signed for receipt.....then the LE's will always (in this investor's world) "be late" (unless you issued the LE on day zero).
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#2152920 - 11/09/17 08:27 PM Re: How to verify hand delivery date? Tarhe
raitchjay Offline
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I guess i'm saying, IF you have your LE's signed (not saying you should), having them signed and dated for the date of delivery when the date of receipt was later.....THAT seems like encouraging the kind of fudging that the investors state they don't want by asking for a squeaky clean file.
Last edited by raitchjay; 11/09/17 08:49 PM.
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