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#2164768 - 02/15/18 07:26 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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A vacation home and a weekend rental are two different things. I never said not to report vacation homes.
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#2164769 - 02/15/18 07:28 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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If a home is BOTH a vacation home (for the owner) and a weekend rental (when the owner isn't there), then yes, it's reportable. My point was that if a home is ONLY used as a weekend rental, then it meets the definition of transitory housing and wouldn't be reportable.
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#2164770 - 02/15/18 07:28 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
raitchjay
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or else we'd be reporting weekend beach homes.
Why wouldn't we?
Because they meet the definition of 'transitory housing'.....their occupants have "primary residences elsewhere". I don't think you can make a hard/fast statement like that. You would really have to know more details, like does the owner use it enough to consider it a second home [code 2 - not owner occupied as a PR.
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#2164771 - 02/15/18 07:30 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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My first post was meant to say "weekend beach home rentals". See my post above.....
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#2164772 - 02/15/18 07:31 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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Sorry..i left out a key word....my apologies.
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#2164773 - 02/15/18 07:31 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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Sorry, we were all posting at once.
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#2164774 - 02/15/18 07:32 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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This again brings up another good scenario. What if they use it as a vacation home for themselves some of the year and then rent it out as an AirBnB the rest of the year. Is it a dwelling? From the commentary: For example, if a person purchases a property, occupies the property for a portion of the year, and rents the property for the remainder of the year, the property is a second residence for purposes of § 1003.4(a)(6).
Last edited by Adam Witmer; 02/15/18 07:37 PM. Reason: To reference what quote I was responding to.
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#2164775 - 02/15/18 07:33 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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I understand that......please read my post to say "weekend beach home rentals", which is what i meant to say, but failed to type.
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#2164777 - 02/15/18 07:34 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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Yes, we were all posting at once and I was a bit slow on grabbing my quote. ;-)
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Adam Witmer, CRCM All statements are my opinion, not those of my employer, and should not be taken as legal advice. www.compliancecohort.com
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#2164784 - 02/15/18 07:45 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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FWIW
I love these type of thread here on BOL. It makes me see both sides and really think through how my bank will handle these situations.
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#2164821 - 02/15/18 09:43 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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All i can say is that i won't be changing my approach on this.....a structure that isn't used as someone's residence doesn't meet the definition of a dwelling IMO (i see no way it can be seen as a "residential structure"), so they can call an about-to-be razed structure a "dwelling" all day long, but IMO, it still isn't. I'm not changing my stance either. So EVERYBODY is not saying raitchjay is wrong. Adam even said he's not fully drink the Cool Aide on this. I don't think there's evidence that our stance is wrong. I think there are differing opinions. HMDA has many areas for "pick a stance and be consistent". In my neck of th woods, examiners are not interpreting it the way you are. JPC: I'm not sure who you are. I enjoy dialoging with others and will always admit when I'm wrong. I may be reading your posts incorrectly (I can't hear your tone or see you), but you appear to me to be very antagonistic. BOL is a community of professionals that helps each other be better. We don't attack others, shout (i.e. typing "EVERYBODY" in all caps), belittle each other, etc. Your posts seem to be doing just that. If that's not your intentions, please consider what you've said and how you're saying it before hitting "submit".
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#2164884 - 02/16/18 02:44 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
David Dickinson
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I've considered the various statements made and I'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thank you all again for the discussion. You're free to do just that. You have EVERYONE so far telling you you're wrong. I teach HMDA for the ABA National Compliance School and meet with regulators frequently because of I'm on the ABA faculty. That doesn't make me right, but I'm comfortable I know a lot about HMDA and stand by these opinions. You said: The borrower is not purchasing a converted facility. They are actually and truly purchasing a dwelling." As EVERYONE has pointed out, this isn't true. If no one dwells in it, it's not a dwelling. The commentary gives examples of homes that are converted to represent this point. They can't spell out every scenario you'll ever encounter. You need to apply the logic of the regulation. I don't really see much support in 2018 HMDA for "looking at the building once the loan funds are applied. I made this up to help people understand HMDA in plain English. It's not verbatim from the regulation but it's crystal clear when you look at the examples and read the entire regulation. You can do what you want, but if you ask for advice and EVERYONE tells you you're wrong, I'd question your position. Have a great day! smile @David - I was kind of making a joke out of the above post that you directed towards me, which I felt met the definition of several things that you were just accusing my posts of being . . .
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#2164885 - 02/16/18 02:46 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
Adam F
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FWIW
I love these type of thread here on BOL. It makes me see both sides and really think through how my bank will handle these situations. Big thumbs up!
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#2164924 - 02/16/18 04:33 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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@David - I was kind of making a joke out of the above post that you directed towards me, which I felt met the definition of several things that you were just accusing my posts of being . . . Makes sense now. I'm humbled as I see I did the same thing that I called you out on. Please forgive me. I'm glad you responded and clarified. I hate that we only get a small percentage of communication with typed messages. We often jump to conclusions of tone and, as you just pointed out, that's exactly what I did.
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#2164981 - 02/16/18 05:59 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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I appreciate the follow-up. I have pretty thick skin when it comes to things like this, so it was no hard feelings on my part. I just thought it was funny you called me out on it, when I felt that your post did try to yell in caps, belittle, etc. Especially, when I ended up being right in the end . . . I know, I know . . . don't everybody jump on me at once.
Last edited by JPC; 02/16/18 06:00 PM.
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#2165051 - 02/16/18 08:30 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Yeah, I'm just being funny. Obviously, I do think my interpretation is right, or else I would not be so firm with my stance. I agree that presentation can always sway conversations in various ways, but I did have a long conversation with the fellow and I presented the evidence and position of both "camps" on this thread. I do find solace though in that Adam and I contacted two separate representatives and they both had the same answer without any collusion between them. Also, in Adam's case, his representative asked several other CFPB staff and they all had the same conclusion.
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#2165053 - 02/16/18 08:31 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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I'm going to try to leave this thread after this post, but IMO the biggest problem with any CFPB rep saying what JPC reports is again, the definitions in the regulation do not support such an idea. IMO, they can't just issue things like that without updating their OWN definitions. Your regulation can't say a dwelling is "a residential structure" which by definition means "someone lives in it as their home" and then issue guidance saying "but a building that looks like a dwelling that no one lives in" is a dwelling too. That's like having a regulation that says "UP is in the direction of the sky" and then issuing guidance or opinions elsewhere where you say "UP is in the direction of the ground".
Also....IMO, my experience is that people who work at govt. agencies like the old HMDA Help or the current CFPB don't put nearly the thought into the intricacies of regulations like HMDA that people who deal with them on a daily basis (compliance professionals and consultants) do. I mean...i think we all have had plenty of experiences with HMDA Help giving answers that were simply wrong, and any compliance professional could tell you immediately that they were wrong. So, personally, what someone sitting at a non-bank desk in a CFPB office doesn't sway me a lot.
Last edited by raitchjay; 02/16/18 08:35 PM.
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#2242205 - 09/09/20 07:08 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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So, i guess according to the CFPB now, loans to purchase land that has dilapidated "dwellings" on them for the purpose of razing the "dwelling" and holding the bare ground for resale are now reportable. Good to know.
Last edited by raitchjay; 09/09/20 07:10 PM.
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#2242206 - 09/09/20 07:19 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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I say let the CFPB go to one corner and their regulation and its definitions go to another corner and ring the bell and let them duke it out.
Last edited by raitchjay; 09/09/20 07:21 PM.
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#2242207 - 09/09/20 07:28 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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LOL . . . I haven't heard of any nuances yet for the condition of the home being razed, but the general standard seems to be to report as a "Purchase." Nothing I've seen yet in HMDA speaks of the "condition" of the dwelling as any deciding factor for anything.
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#2242209 - 09/09/20 07:34 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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I just threw "dilapidated" in there for description.....i've never argued that condition is the factor. Use and intended use...absolutely.
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#2242210 - 09/09/20 07:36 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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The FAQ i read from your link mentioned a home being razed and a spec home being built in its place....so i'm confused by what you mean that you haven't heard .....???
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#2242212 - 09/09/20 07:40 PM
Re: purchase lot with SFR that will be torn down-HMDA?
bnkgrl77
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So NABW....someone comes in wanting a loan to buy a piece of property that has a dilapidated house on it....the loan proceeds will buy the land, raze the house, and construct a barbershop.....you're reporting that loan on your LAR?
ETA: and please note, there's no "conversion" going on in this scenario...we aren't converting a home to a barbershop.
Last edited by raitchjay; 09/09/20 07:41 PM.
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