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#2167500 - 03/09/18 08:49 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
RR Joker Offline
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I suppose it actually does make sense to ignore the home located on the farm and stick with a cash out refi since the farm dwelling isn't a 'dwelling' for HMDA purposes. Egads.
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#2167501 - 03/09/18 08:52 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
raitchjay Offline
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Joker.....if the exact scenario had happened in 2014, would you have reported as a refi? I see nothing new or different here on this particular scenario than if the loan had happened in 2014. If you are answering "refi" now, you should have been saying "refi" in 2014. Just sayin.
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#2167502 - 03/09/18 08:53 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
RR Joker Offline
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Yes, because farm house acquisitions were not reported at all. Not really sure I ever had the instance come up!
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#2167503 - 03/09/18 08:54 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
RR Joker Offline
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On the other hand, if all my borrower told me was I'm buying a house and land, I'd report it then and now as a purchase...so I think you could argue it either way if you don't go into too much detail smirk
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#2167538 - 03/09/18 10:36 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
TMatt87 Offline
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The ag exemption doesn't appear to be tied to the definition of home purchase the way it was in 2017 and prior. It also doesn't modify the definition of dwelling. All the ag exemption does is exclude a loan that is primarily ag purpose or secured by property that is primarily used for ag purpose from reporting. We agree that the ag exemption doesn't apply in this case since the primary use of funds will be for a refinance and the loan isn't secured by the farm.

In my opinion, the farm meets the definition of a dwelling, because the ag exemption doesn't modify the dwelling definition. So you have a dwelling secured loan that is partially for the purpose of purchasing a dwelling. So I would still say a purchase in this situation.
Last edited by TMatt87; 03/09/18 10:40 PM.
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#2167550 - 03/09/18 11:10 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
David Dickinson Offline
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I'm torn on this. Because it's a refinance of their current home, I think it's reported. I don't think it's a purchase, because that part of the purpose is exempt. I'm leaning toward calling it a "refinance". If you agree, I would document what I said above to support the decision.

Then I would close the file & move on. smile
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#2167555 - 03/10/18 12:07 AM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
TMatt87 Offline
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I agree that this is a very strange information, and that there is a lot of gray area. I could argue reporting either way, so as with so much with HMDA, document your decision and if you happen to run into this situation again, be consistent.
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#2167721 - 03/12/18 09:41 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
raitchjay Offline
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You can even make the argument to exempt this......if you have a loan that is exempt as temporary financing, you exempt it, even though the purpose behind the loan would make it reportable otherwise. IOW, an exemption is an exemption is an exemption--once it's exempt, it's exempt and you're done. If you had an application to purchase a structure used as transitory housing, buy a 100 acre farm with a farm house, buy 200 acres of bare land..........and buy 4 rent homes, you wouldn't report that (at least, i don't think i would).
Last edited by raitchjay; 03/12/18 09:52 PM.
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#2167722 - 03/12/18 09:46 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
raitchjay Offline
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^^That's just another way to look at it....i'm still torn too. They should explain better when you have multiple, competing purposes, some of which are reportable and some of which are expressly exempt.
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#2167741 - 03/13/18 12:37 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
RR Joker Offline
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In this particular case you would have no basis to not report [exempt it] since if nothing else, it does involve a refinance of their non-farm dwelling.
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#2167906 - 03/13/18 07:15 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
raitchjay Offline
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I just don't see a lot of clarity in the regulation on how to handle a loan with one (or more) reportable purposes and one (or more) exemptable purposes.
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#2167945 - 03/13/18 08:23 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
TMatt87 Offline
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The exemption is for loans where the primary purpose is ag. This loan's primary purpose is not ag, it is to refinance a dwelling, therefore, the exemption doesn't apply.
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#2168000 - 03/14/18 12:39 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house raitchjay
RR Joker Offline
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Originally Posted By raitchjay
I just don't see a lot of clarity in the regulation on how to handle a loan with one (or more) reportable purposes and one (or more) exemptable purposes.


I'll state my case a slightly different way.
The majority of the funds involve the refinance of the PR. How can it not be reportable in some manner?
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#2168023 - 03/14/18 01:51 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
raitchjay Offline
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Originally Posted By RR Joker
Originally Posted By raitchjay
I just don't see a lot of clarity in the regulation on how to handle a loan with one (or more) reportable purposes and one (or more) exemptable purposes.


I'll state my case a slightly different way.
The majority of the funds involve the refinance of the PR. How can it not be reportable in some manner?


Yeah...i forgot that's how that read...scratch what i said.
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#2168153 - 03/14/18 05:51 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
David Dickinson Offline
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Quote:
The majority of the funds involve the refinance of the PR. How can it not be reportable in some manner?

I agree. That's why I stated "Because it's a refinance of their current home, I think it's reported." in my last post. Then I also stated "I don't think it's a purchase, because that part of the purpose is exempt. I'm leaning toward calling it a "refinance". "
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#2169636 - 03/22/18 06:05 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
Snowgirl Offline
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What about a consumer loan that states it is a cash-out refinance for $100,000. The loan officer indicated the loan was for personal purposes. The funds were deposited into the customer's checking account. However, there was a wire that came out of the checking the same day the funds were deposited to a Title Company for $200,000. The loan is secured by their farm. Would this be reportable or is it exempt because it's secured by the farm which includes their dwelling.

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#2169638 - 03/22/18 06:10 PM Re: HMDA & Refinance to purchase farm land with house Red Raiders
RR Joker Offline
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It's excluded because the dwelling is located on farm land, if that's the actual purpose of the land.
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