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#1907408 - 03/21/14 01:37 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
John Burnett Offline
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"Everyone's situation is different and must be handled how they feel best."

Very true.

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HOEPA and Homeowner Counseling Rule
#1917152 - 04/24/14 02:33 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
luvs2trvl Offline
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We have just disclovered a loan where the notice was not included in our disclosure package. Is there any way that this can be cured?

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#1917171 - 04/24/14 03:06 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
manimal Offline
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If you scroll up higher in this thread, it was discussed. Look for post #1905607. smile
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#1921398 - 05/08/14 05:43 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Antilles Offline
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Would the list of counselors need to be provided for mobile home only loans (no land attached)?
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#1921418 - 05/08/14 06:01 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
RR Joker Offline
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If it's a HCML or contains a neg am feature for first time buyers they would have to have counseling.

The actual rule for giving the list is under RESPA, which would require land to apply, but how else are they going to know where to get the counseling if a list isn't given? (if the loan contains either of these features)
Last edited by RR Joker; 05/08/14 06:09 PM.
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#1921456 - 05/08/14 07:04 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
John Burnett Offline
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For the RESPA loans (with dirt), the List of Homeownership Counseling Organizations (forgive me if I start abbreviating it as the LOHCO) has a delivery timing requirement under Reg X 1024.20(a)(1). If the loan isn't subject to RESPA (no dirt), there is no delivery date expectation under Regulation Z. You don't even have to provide the formal list that RESPA and the Bureau require. But the counseling may not be done by an affiliate of the lender and the lender cannot steer the borrower to any particular counselor. So if you provide a list, it needs to have more than one counselor listed, it would seem, even if you have to reach outside your area to find one.
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#1921558 - 05/08/14 09:11 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Slowpanic Offline
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We have a new vendor for our lending department. We have discovered that they have a form that instructs applicants on how to find approved counseling. It list the CFPB website and provides a CFPB housing counseling phone number. My lenders are arguing that this is all we should have to give the applicants, I argue that the reg. states that we have to give a list therefore we will be giving out the list. Am I right?

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#1921626 - 05/09/14 12:56 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
John Burnett Offline
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You are correct in your understanding that the regulation (at 12 CFR 1024.20) requires that you provide the list, and the CFPB has published an interpretive rule at https://federalregister.gov/a/2013-27300 that allows you to provide a link to a website to allow an applicant to look for counseling providers in addition to the list of 10 organizations you must provide, but not in place of the printed list.
Last edited by John Burnett; 05/09/14 12:56 PM.
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#1921636 - 05/09/14 01:18 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Slowpanic Offline
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Thank you for your response. I talked with the lenders this morning, they are not happy. Looks like I have done my job here for the day, might as well head out early.

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#1921669 - 05/09/14 01:59 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
RR Joker Offline
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I have not seen any repeal (although the vague reference to '6 months' should be up around July)...but did I miss something?

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/20131...equirements.pdf

Accordingly, while lenders are incorporating ß 1024.20(a)(1)(ii) list instructions into their systems, they may direct borrowers to the Bureauís housing counseling agency website to obtain a list of housing counselors, using the format and text suggested below, www.consumerfinance.gov/find-a-housing-counselor. These steps, if taken by lenders in good faith while they are building their systems or are working with vendors to build systems, would achieve the goals of the regulation and would not raise supervisory or enforcement concerns. Following is the suggested text to be used for this interim procedure:

ďHousing counseling agencies approved by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) can offer independent advice about whether a particular set of mortgage loan terms is a good fit based on your objectives and circumstances, often at little or no cost.
If you are interested in contacting a HUD-approved housing counseling agency in your area,
you can visit the Consumer Financial Protection Bureauís (CFPB) website, www.consumerfinance.gov/find-a-housing-counselor, and enter your zip code.
You can also access HUDís housing counseling agency website via www.consumerfinance.gov/mortgagehelp.
For additional assistance with locating a housing counseling agency, call the CFPB at 1...
Last edited by RR Joker; 05/09/14 02:00 PM.
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#1921745 - 05/09/14 03:14 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
John Burnett Offline
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For some reason I couldn't find that document (if the Bureau ever gets finished pumping out regs and amendments to amendments to updates to those regs, I'd like them to do something about re-organizing their site to make it easier to find "stuff").

Aside from the fact that the Bulletin doesn't say how long it's "good" for (aside from the statement that lenders have said they might need 6 months), it only provides an OK to give applicants the web address if the lender is planning to pull data in from HUD or the Bureau and provide the written list in a "home grown" document (themselves or with a vendor), and assumes the lender or service provider is actually working on getting such a system in place.

Slowpanic didn't suggest in the original question that his/her bank was developing such a delivery method, and I won't assume that it was. And if it isn't working on that form of delivery, its lenders had better get used to pulling those lists down from the Bureau or HUD for each application subject to RESPA (or have a small supply of them that will cover the ZIP Codes™ in its service area).
Last edited by John Burnett; 05/09/14 03:14 PM.
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#1921751 - 05/09/14 03:21 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
RR Joker Offline
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I just thought I'd bring it up as the way I read the post it sounded to me (without fully assuming) that the new vendor is using what most vendors are currently still using as they work out their solution.

My bank uses a very large well-known vendor and they have yet to finalize their solution, so I felt this may easily be what they were up against, too.

Having said all of that...our process has been, all along, to just go ahead and print the list and be done with it...but I did think it was note-worthy to bring this up so that slowpanic had all the facts as they exist today.

Not to mention, I really did wonder if I'd missed something. wink
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#1923031 - 05/14/14 03:19 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Slowpanic Offline
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Every thirty days I pull the list and save it for the lenders to use. All they have to do is print it. They were just hoping that the form the vendor provided would take the place of that. I said no, so they are continuing to print the list and provide it to our customers. We are a small community bank and it really isn't that big of a deal. Just another step.

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#1923188 - 05/14/14 06:13 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
John Burnett Offline
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Sounds like you've got it under control. I agree it's "just another step," but the steps that have been added to the residential mortgage lending process are cumulative, not unlike the straws accumulated in the burden borne by a camel.
Last edited by John Burnett; 05/14/14 06:14 PM.
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#2169126 - 03/20/18 01:48 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Compliance NABW Offline
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The Counselor list would apply to land only loans as well, correct? Or, is it not considered a "federally related mortgage loan?" Looks like the following includes land only loans, but perhaps "land contract" is something more specific.

[(2) Any installment sales contract, land contract, or contract for deed on otherwise qualifying residential property is a federally related mortgage loan if the contract is funded in whole or in part by proceeds of a loan made by any maker of mortgage loans specified in paragraphs (1)(ii) (A) through (D) of this definition.]

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#2169130 - 03/20/18 01:58 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
rlcarey Offline
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on otherwise qualifying residential property

No dwelling = no RESPA
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#2169354 - 03/21/18 02:41 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
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So, no Counselor's list . . . Interesting. Thank you RL. So, although TRID disclosures apply to vacant land loans, the other parts of RESPA that do not fall under the TRID provisions are not impacted. And, the Counselor's list is not officially under the TRID amendments. So, does that also mean the Affiliated Business Arrangements requirements would also not be applicable for a land only loan?
Last edited by JPC; 03/21/18 03:27 PM.
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#2169530 - 03/22/18 01:40 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
John Burnett Offline
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Lather, rinse, repeat. Revisit Randy's first response. AfBA requirements are part of RESPA.
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#2169554 - 03/22/18 02:17 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Compliance NABW Offline
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Lol. I get it. I guess the tricky part is just knowing what parts of RESPA are TRID specific. Thanks for the input! From what I understand, it is decently common for lenders to include these forms for land only loans, but perhaps they are doing so just because they don't want to go through the process of having many different disclosure packages or because of the "if you know a residence will be built within 2 years" part of RESPA.
Last edited by JPC; 03/22/18 02:19 PM.
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#2169622 - 03/22/18 05:25 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
John Burnett Offline
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The only parts of RESPA that are TRID-specific are §§1024.7, .8, .9, .10, and .11, which involve the GFE and HUD Settlement Statement. But even those will apply if you're dealing with a loan that is subject to RESPA, but not to TRID.
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#2169712 - 03/22/18 08:14 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Compliance NABW Offline
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Thank you. Understood smile

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#2204359 - 01/29/19 10:05 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Alisha
Nicole Offline
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just to clarify this notice is required on any consumer 1-4 family primary residence secured loan correct?

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#2204965 - 02/04/19 05:56 PM Re: HomeOwnership Counseling Notice Nicole
Carolina Blue Offline
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Lost in a regulatory fog
The notice must be given with all RESPA covered applications (except Reverse mortgages or timeshares), so the notice is not limited to just primary residence. See 1024.20 for the details.

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