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#2180673 - 06/04/18 07:37 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Adam Witmer Offline
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It's been a while since I got my CRCM but I've actually had more than one examiner tell me that my CRCM gave them a greater comfort level of my compliance management abilities. They stated that they went through an examiner certification process that was similar to the CRCM, so they found value in the CRCM.

Also, for me, it forced me to dive into areas that didn't apply to my bank at the time and helped me to be more well-rounded. It was also beneficial when I wanted to get into consulting.

That said, there are many compliance professionals much smarter than me that don't have the CRCM, so...
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All statements are my opinion, not those of my employer, and should not be taken as legal advice.
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#2180681 - 06/04/18 08:09 PM Re: CRCM Exam Skittles
Soccer Offline
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Originally Posted By Skittles
I obtained the CRCM certification in 2007 and it has seemed to help me; however I do not have a Bachelor's Degree - just an Associates. I have also noted not to apply with Pippi.


I thought the same when I read Pippi's post, like Skittles, I too have my CRCM, an associates and 31 years banking experience. Not everything in this business is about degree's. I look at the job posting's where I work and see what they want for education and I laugh. First, someone with that much paper is not going to work for the salary they want to pay and like others have said there are a lot of very smart compliance folks on BOL that do not have any initials next to their names and I take what they tell me as gospel.
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#2180684 - 06/04/18 08:15 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
raitchjay Offline
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OK
I have a bachelor's degree-----in social studies education. What does that have to do with compliance? Zero. I think competent compliance people can come from all sorts of backgrounds, have degrees, no degrees, certifications, no certifications, etc.

But having said that, i do understand where Pippii is coming from.....it's hard to KNOW whether someone has those attributes (willingness to work; ability to read, write, and comprehend; etc.) just from looking at an application or talking to someone for 5 minutes.....so a certification or something similar can act as a good proxy for that.
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#2180689 - 06/04/18 08:52 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Skittles Offline
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TN
I wasn't picking on Pippii at all - and many employers state they want a Bachelor's degree. I just don't happen to have one - but do have almost 39 years in banking.
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#2180690 - 06/04/18 08:58 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
HMS Pippii Offline
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Oh boy - looks like I just killed my applicant pool! Good thing I don't have any openings... I'm not the only CRCM|CAMS combo on the team. I should point out that my preferred degree is in Lib Arts/Science since I know from experience just how much critical thinking, research, and writing is required in this job.

If I had someone apply with a high school degree, 5+ years compliance experience, and a CRCM? I'd absolutely talk to them if their resume was clean - no typos, no grammar issues. One of the smartest bankers I knew at my last bank had a high school degree and 35+ years of bank experience. She did a fantastic job running the customer-facing side of the bank until she had to write something. As much as we have to write? She'd have floundered because nobody wants their boss to re-write their work any more than the boss wants to constantly edit for grammar and clarity. Her management responses to our audit reports were cringe-worthy. Everyone who reported to her loved her management skills. I'm not an elitist snob. I want people to be in the best job for their skill set.

I'd hire a Compliance Analyst without a degree or a CRCM. I just wouldn't hire a Compliance Officer without both. smile
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#2180698 - 06/05/18 03:07 AM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
SMQ, CRCM Offline

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Between the lines
I think the CRCM also has a lot to do with the market you are in. I was with a small bank in a small town, CRCM was no big deal and not too many bankers in the area had it. Examiners were pretty much the only people even asking about it and pretty much for the reason previously stated. Pippii, however, is in a large metropolitan area and has a much larger pool to choose from; being more selective helps to limit the prospects.

Now I am in another position with a bigger company and the CRCM is expected and they pay for us to get it. I must admit, I am rather proud of being able to pass on the first go. You really can teach an old dog!!!

As for the typos and grammar, while I am not that offended in casual conversation or postings; I also expect applications and resumes to be their best work and free of errors. Maybe has something to do with having been a Business Education major!!

As for the exam, I thought that you could not rely on the results that you were given at the time of the exam. Has something changed? We had to wait for the "official" email that came 6 weeks later.
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#2180761 - 06/05/18 05:29 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
David Dickinson Offline
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I was an FDIC examiner and later started a compliance consulting company. After 8 years of doing compliance everyday, I took the CRCM exam (2001) to appease a few large bank clients. Did it make me better at my job? No. I didn't even study for it because this is what I do everyday.

All of the consultants on our Team have passed the CRCM. We do it because the "industry" seems to hold it in high regards. My personal opinion is that it's a benchmark, but I've seen a lot of simple questions on BOL from people with CRCM in their title line. I'm not trying to be rude, just tell you straight up that I don't think the CRCM designation amounts to much.

As to having a degree: Some of my best Team Members have no college or Associates Degrees. Work ethic, passion and the ability to learn are held in a much higher regard by me than a piece of paper from a college.
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#2180779 - 06/05/18 06:50 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
RR Joker Offline
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The Swamp
but I've seen a lot of simple questions on BOL from people with CRCM in their title line. I'm not trying to be rude, just tell you straight up that I don't think the CRCM designation amounts to much.

This.

Work ethic, passion and the ability to learn are held in a much higher regard by me than a piece of paper from a college

and, Thank you, I feel the same way and am one of those paperless people smile

FWIW, if I'd gone for the paper, I wouldn't be a CO. wink
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#2180781 - 06/05/18 06:58 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
raitchjay Offline
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For some reason, this reminds me of something my dad once said......someone around him said "money can't buy happiness" and Dad replied "neither can poverty".

Having a college degree doesn't mean you know more than someone without one. Not having a college degree doesn't mean you're more street smart than someone with a college degree. You have to take people, one at a time.
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#2180786 - 06/05/18 07:29 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
RR Joker Offline
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The Swamp
Haha...dad's are so wise! Mine was an accountant and an educator. He so often said that many people were highly educated and great teachers but could not begin to do the job for which they otherwise teach so well laugh!
Last edited by RR Joker; 06/05/18 07:30 PM.
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#2180801 - 06/05/18 08:02 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Soccer Offline
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I think the moral to this story is don't judge a book by it's cover. As stated, there are very smart people who just did not have the means to obtain the paper or who did not want to and they are making great contributions to this world.

So take the test or don't take it, whatever works for you is what you should do and not let any of the other noise get in the way!
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#2180808 - 06/05/18 08:22 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Sunshine Lady Offline
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I agree with Soccer.
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#2180812 - 06/05/18 08:35 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Darth HMDA, CRCM, CAMS Offline
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Since we are on the subject of certifications. I obtained my CRCM last year. I would like to work towards another. I have recently taken a position at a smaller bank where I will be responsible for BSA. Should I go for the CAMS, or should I work towards the CERP, or CIA?

Not sure - I want them all eventually. Mostly just for focused continued education and a goal to work towards.

Thoughts? Recommendations?
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The opinions expressed are mine, do not represent the opinions of my employer, and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

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#2180814 - 06/05/18 08:43 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Adam Witmer Offline
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I would say it depends on what you want to do long term as a career objective. All three are in different areas of specialty: BSA, risk, audit.
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Adam Witmer, CRCM

All statements are my opinion, not those of my employer, and should not be taken as legal advice.
www.compliancecohort.com

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#2180818 - 06/05/18 09:15 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
E.E.G.B Offline
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the sandy shore
CAMS is awesome but CFE would be good too. See which one management will pay for first!
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#2180822 - 06/05/18 09:29 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Rocky P Offline
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Florida
The CIA covers auditing in all disciplines, not only banking.
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#2181020 - 06/07/18 04:36 PM Re: CRCM Exam Soccer
P*Q Offline

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Originally Posted By Soccer
I think the moral to this story is don't judge a book by it's cover. As stated, there are very smart people who just did not have the means to obtain the paper or who did not want to and they are making great contributions to this world.

So take the test or don't take it, whatever works for you is what you should do and not let any of the other noise get in the way!
Agreed! No CRCM here but I'm good at what I do and surround myself with a great, dedicated team. Been in banking for 28 years well over half of those in compliance and BSA, I have the experience and knowledge to excel and I don't feel a lettered designation after my name is going to make a difference for me, just my opinion. I've not been questioned by any auditors or examiners either and have always done very well on exams. My employer respects me, treats me well, has not demanded I seek certification so as far as I'm concerned, I'm good! grin

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#2181036 - 06/07/18 05:45 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Darth HMDA, CRCM, CAMS Offline
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Thanks Adam/EE/Rocky. I know they are very different - but I have to wear a lot of hats now. smile
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#2181050 - 06/07/18 06:47 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
HMS Pippii Offline
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I should stay out of the conversation at this point, but - in your current job, if it makes no difference? It makes no difference. I was in Compliance for 18 years before I decided it was worth the effort to go take the CRCM exam.

If you find yourself in a candidate pool looking for a job, you're at the mercy of the hiring company's expectations. I think it also comes down to knowing what size bank you're likely to work for, how much focus you'll have on Compliance compared to other areas, and what your competition in the market will look like if you decide to change jobs.

Darth - I'm with EEGB. See which one they'll pay for first and then factor in your preference.
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#2181063 - 06/07/18 09:04 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Norman Paperman Offline
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48.934476, -114.343735
I recently got the CRCM and while I am very proud to have it hanging on the wall, I don't know that I have the time to attend enough training to keep the certification active. I may become one of those CRCM(inactive) guys.

I'm all for staying abreast of things, but I accomplish that through BOL and a limited number of seminars throughout the year. Not near enough to hit the target.
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CRCM

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#2181144 - 06/08/18 06:31 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
HMS Pippii Offline
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HMS Pippii
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Norm - don't overlook the tests in the back of the monthly ABA Compliance Magazine. You get CE credit for taking those. Add in a few webinars/seminars and it's not hard to maintain.
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#2181147 - 06/08/18 06:32 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
Skittles Offline
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TN
I agree - I take every one of those.
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#2181181 - 06/08/18 08:39 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
#Just Jay Offline
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Cheeseheadland
It is only like 20 hours a year, and I think you an hour credit for the test?

Also, if you participate in a state banker association compliance roundtables or education networking events, leverage those as well. I have yet to have a credit submission to be turned down. I usually end up carrying hours over from one three year period to the next.
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#2181183 - 06/08/18 08:42 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
E.E.G.B Offline
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the sandy shore
Verafin also gives CAMS credit for going to their road shows - 5.5 for this last one. And it's a great networking opportunity, even if you don't use Verafin.
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I disbelieved what he was saying so hard, I probably created an alternate universe where it wasn't true.

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#2181187 - 06/08/18 08:51 PM Re: CRCM Exam Anonymous
ACBbank Offline
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ACBbank
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New York City
If you have any interest in working AML and/or Sanctions, you should obtain the CAMS certification.
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