We have a situation where we mailed the LE to the customer; however, the customer also signed an LE Acknowledgement when they came in to sign their CD. Since we mailed it, should we be concerned that the LE acknowledgement is signed the same date and the CD? We have conflicting opinions in my shop and would like some outside perspective.

Any signature acknowledgements are a requirement of the lender or investor. When did you mail the disclosure and when did they sign the acknowledgement?

LE was mailed on 3/21. The LE Acknowledgment and the CD was signed on 4/3.

Then technically, the LE was delivered on the 3/24 using the three day mail rule. Now it is up to policy requirements. That is the problem with acknowledgements.

The actual receipt date for the LE doesn't matter except for the borrower's intent to proceed and your ability to start charging more than just a credit report fee. For the LE, it's otherwise all about putting it in the mail.

As has been mentioned above, it is when you put the LE in the mail and it is presumed "received/delivered" according to the mailbox rule standard. What is prohibited is to ISSUE the LE and CD on the same day. You would want to make sure you had supporting evidence for the 3/21 mail date.

I have a similar scenario. The LE was issued today, however, the customer signed the Intent to Proceed TODAY. They now want to issue the CD today. Can we do that?

No. Your CD can't be issued same day as the LE.

Not quite accurate, I think. The prohibition on providing an LE and CloD on the same day applies to revised loan estimates [see § 1026.19(e)(4)(ii)]. There's no mention of a prohibition on providing the first LE and CloD on the same day that I can find. The first LE has to be provided (delivered or placed in the mail) within 3 (regular definition) biz days of receipt of the application with the 6 requisite pieces of information, and at least 7 (precise definition) biz days before closing (except for timeshare-secured loans), and the CloD has to be received by the consumer(s) not later than 3 (precise definition) biz days prior to closing.

Oh wow...I think I've always had it in my head it couldn't be same day.

In theory, at least, a timeshare-plan secured loan could be applied for, disclosed, and closed on the same day. There is no seven-day before closing requirement, and there's no three day wait between CloD and consummation. In fact, if closing takes place less than three business days after application, the LE requirement disappears. [comment 19(e)(1)(iii)-4].

My apologies. It IS a revised LE. They have acknowledged it that very same day. We needed a rate lock extension. And thank you for responding so quickly.

Then, because the revised LE was issued today, you cannot issue the CloD until tomorrow, and closing can take place such that the CloD was received by the consumer no later than the 3d biz day prior to closing.

It's amazing how stuff that gets said often enough becomes "fact" to us. I've heard so many times myself that the CD can't be issued the same day as the LE, that I believed it to be so too. But checked behind John (not that I needed to), and I cannot find any such requirement for the original LE either, only for a revised LE. Thanks for the teaching moment, John!

For real! I would have sworn my life on it!

RR - Not even TRID is THAT important! And Jim, thanks for having my back on that. This was one I had looked up a while back, so I was comfortable with it, but it never hurts to have a respected colleague confirm something like that. Heaven knows there have been some TRID-related issues I've changed my mind about in the last five years.

!

I'd like to refresh this thread -
The Issue Date on the LE is 6-25 and we place it in the mail that day. The borrower comes in on 6-26 and we had them a copy of the same LE and they sign it 6-26. They gave their intent to proceed on 6-26 so now we are going to ask for an upfront fee of $500 to cover the cost of the appraisal.

Does the copy of the LE given in person the day after the issue date cause an issue?

I don't believe that causes an issue. I'd just document it well in the file to show what happened.

There's no requirement to sign the LE.
You received acknowledgement of receipt of the LE in two different ways on 6/26. They signed the copy of the LE and they gave intent.
It's intent that triggers the ability to charge and intent cannot be given until after deliver of the LE so you're good to go.

Ok, thanks. I guess I worried about the issue date on the LE being the day prior to the hand delivered date but we'd document both the mail and "borrower came in to the bank....". The investor requires the signature on the LE & CD.

So as I understand it there is no requirement for a revised LE to be signed but it has to be received and we have to be able to prove that. We have an issue where we had a revised LE that was sent 7/24 and the initial CD was sent 7/26. Both of these documents were signed 7/27 electronically and the closing date is 7/31. My question is since the LE was signed 7/27 and that is less than 4 business days from closing do we need to push closing a day or if I can prove we sent it on the 24th are we ok to keep the original closing date of 7/31?

"The consumer must receive any revised version of the disclosures required under paragraph (e)(1)(i) of this section not later than four business days prior to consummation. If the revised version of the disclosures required under paragraph (e)(1)(i) of this section is not provided to the consumer in person, the consumer is considered to have received such version three business days after the creditor delivers or places such version in the mail."

If you don't have any other proof the borrower received it before 7/27, then I would say you have to push it. It doesn't need to be signed though. If you have any sort of read receipt through your electronic delivery portal, then you might be able to prove they recieved it before they signed and returned it.