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#2230676 - 02/10/20 09:48 PM Trusts and UBO
SunnyFL, CRCM Offline
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FL
Here is a lending scenario concerning UBO: Supplying beneficial ownership information does not apply to a Trust unless the trust is a statutory trust created by filing with the Secretary of State. Does it make a difference if the Trust is a borrower/owner or just an Owner of our borrowing entity? Does it make a difference if it is a personal trust? I say no. We do not have to drill down to a living breathing person in either instance unless they are a Statutory Trust.
Then of course you have Question 19 of the FAQs that talks about multiple trustees of a Trust. Again, I believe they are referring to a Statutory Trust having multiple trustees and you need only identify one with more than 25% ownership. Oh, and if you do only identify one, you give them 100% ownership? I don't think so. You give them whatever percentage of ownership they have over 25%.
In all I have read about beneficial owners it does not distinguish between owners and borrowers and just because a bank classifies trusts as an entity because of the way they have to put it on the system, my personal trust does not qualify for collection of UBO or CTL information. Please set me straight if I am wrong.

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#2230690 - 02/11/20 03:16 PM Re: Trusts and UBO SunnyFL, CRCM
ColoradoAML Offline
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When a trust is your customer (based on CIP definitions of customer) then you must determine if you need to collect beneficial ownership. If you do, because it's a statutory trust, then you would identify them as you do any other legal entity customer.

Question 19 refers to when a trust is the beneficial owner of an entity, not when they are your customer. So if you ask a legal entity customer who their beneficial owners are, and they answer that it's ABC trust, then you would instead list their trustee. If there are multiple trustees you would either list all of them or just pick one.

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#2230738 - 02/11/20 08:01 PM Re: Trusts and UBO ColoradoAML
SunnyFL, CRCM Offline
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FL
Do I have any other takers on this question? I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with UBO and personal trusts. Statutory trusts are very rare in our area and everyone wants to throw personal trusts into the UBO equation.

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#2230739 - 02/11/20 08:06 PM Re: Trusts and UBO SunnyFL, CRCM
rlcarey Online
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rlcarey
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Galveston, TX
Trusts are not included in the definition of legal entity customer, other than statutory trusts created by a filing with a Secretary of State or similar office.

What else is there really to say?
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#2230743 - 02/11/20 08:23 PM Re: Trusts and UBO SunnyFL, CRCM
BrianC Online
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BrianC
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Illinois
FAQ #19 is referring to personal trusts. If a personal trust owns a legal entity customer then you must obtain the beneficial ownership info of the trustee.

If the personal trust is your customer, then beneficial ownership does not apply.
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#2231031 - 02/13/20 09:19 PM Re: Trusts and UBO SunnyFL, CRCM
BuckDog Offline
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Tennessee
What if you have an entity that is owned by two "Living Trusts" who have trustees that are not the grantors? Common sense would say that the grantors would be the beneficial owner but reading FAQ #19 it seems that we only consider who the trustees are in completing the Beneficial Ownership form.

ABC Corp - 49% owned by John Doe Family Trust - Billy Jean and Jamie Sue, Co-Trustees
49% owned by Suzie Que Living Trust - Johnny Brown, Trustee.

Would you still consider the trustees as the Beneficial Ownership based on the FAQ #19? I say yes, but it is confusing.

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#2231033 - 02/13/20 09:26 PM Re: Trusts and UBO SunnyFL, CRCM
BrianC Online
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BrianC
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Illinois
For all we know, the original grantor of a family trust could now be deceased and the successor trustees are managing the assets.

FAQ #19 is very clear that the trustees are the natural persons for the purpose of the ownership prong. In the case of John Doe's Trust, the person opening the account can pick one of the two trustees to list on the certification.
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#2231034 - 02/13/20 09:37 PM Re: Trusts and UBO BrianC
BuckDog Offline
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Tennessee
Brian, thanks for your response. In this case the grantors are very much alive. We will let the person opening the account pick the trustee, for the first trust, to go on the form and then the second trust only has the one trustee that will also go on the form.

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