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#2244413 - 10/21/20 05:04 PM Cash Withdrawal (Not Acct Owner) & ATM = CTR
MJNoone Offline
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MJNoone
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Posts: 109
Kansas
Scenario: Bank Customer authorizes a Friend to withdraw $10,000 from an account to take to an MSB to wire to Customer in Texas. In the same day, Customer has a $204 ATM withdrawal.

I'm thinking I have a CTR transaction with $10,204 on behalf of the Customer in one banking day. Customer would be the beneficiary of the entire amount and considered the Transactor for $204.

My confusion comes with the Friend. Friend is definitely the Transactor for the $10,000 but would Friend also be considered a Beneficiary of this amount as well? Who's to say Friend actually sent to the funds on to Customer? So then Friend would be conducting the transaction on their own behalf rather than on someone else's behalf?

Can you have 2 non-related Beneficiaries???

Would my CTR have 3 Part 1's if the Friend is a Beneficiary?
* Customer - 2a: $204 Own Behalf
* Customer - 2c: $10,000 On Whose Behalf
* Friend - 2a: $10,000 Own Behalf
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#2244415 - 10/21/20 05:33 PM Re: Cash Withdrawal (Not Acct Owner) & ATM = CTR MJNoone
ColoradoAML Offline
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Posts: 338
Yes, you can have two non-related beneficiaries.

At this point, only the customers know on whose behalf the cash was withdrawn, you have to file based on your understanding. So if you understand that Friend acted entirely on behalf of Customer, you would indicate that, if you understand that this transaction was entirely for the benefit of Friend you'd file on that (no CTR required in this case), and if you believe that the withdrawal was on behalf of both of them, you'd file it as you indicated.

As for the question of who's to say what really happened, the bank is required to complete the CTR and report who the transactions are on behalf of, and sometimes that requires additional questioning of the customer. If the customer lies, there isn't much you can do, but if you believe that maybe a SAR is warranted and maybe these types of transactions shouldn't be allowed.

See No. 2 in the ancient FIN-1989-R005 for guidance that instructs more questioning with certain transactions.

https://www.fincen.gov/resources/st...s/formerly-known-89-5-how-does-financial

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#2244424 - 10/21/20 07:24 PM Re: Cash Withdrawal (Not Acct Owner) & ATM = CTR MJNoone
John Burnett Offline
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Cape Cod
If the $10,000 was withdrawn by Friend on behalf of Customer and $204 was withdrawn by Customer at an ATM (actually it was probably $200 plus a surcharge of $4, but it won't change the CTR), there will have to be a CTR, just as M Noone described (two Part Is for Customer and one for Friend).

$10,204 in cash-out transactions were completed on the same business day on behalf of Customer.
Customer was reported in two capacities, 2a and 2c.
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#2244437 - 10/21/20 09:04 PM Re: Cash Withdrawal (Not Acct Owner) & ATM = CTR John Burnett
MJNoone Offline
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MJNoone
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Posts: 109
Kansas
This is the first time with an ATM transaction for me -- Do I include the full $204 on the CTR or just the $200 (assuming the $4 is a fee)??
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#2244485 - 10/22/20 07:01 PM Re: Cash Withdrawal (Not Acct Owner) & ATM = CTR MJNoone
StormFront Offline
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Posts: 65
I have had this a few times and just included the base withdrawal--they did not get the extra $4.

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#2244663 - 10/27/20 01:46 PM Re: Cash Withdrawal (Not Acct Owner) & ATM = CTR MJNoone
John Burnett Offline
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Cape Cod
I agree with that, if you believe the odd dollars to be the network or (usually) ATM deployer/owner fee (often called a surcharge).

I qualify that only because I have seen more banks deploying multi-denomination ATMs that provide exact dollar amounts, dispensing 50s, 20s, 5s, and 1s. I still remember the bank in the nearby town of Mashpee that had an ATM that would dispense exact amounts down to the penny. Can you imagine loading and proving THAT monster? I think the CEO of the bank had a summer home out here on Cape Cod and wanted to make exact change ATM service available there. (the bank isn't there any more).
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#2244704 - 10/27/20 06:55 PM Re: Cash Withdrawal (Not Acct Owner) & ATM = CTR MJNoone
John Burnett Offline
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Cape Cod
Originally Posted by ColoradoAML
So if you understand that Friend acted entirely on behalf of Customer, you would indicate that, if you understand that this transaction was entirely for the benefit of Friend you'd file on that (no CTR required in this case)


For the record, I agree with this statement. My earlier response might sound like I was in disagreement.

I imagine that, if the customer didn't get the wired funds, but saw that the balance in their account had dropped by ten grand, the bank would get a panicky call.
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