Just want to confirm I am understanding this correctly -

A closing attorney/title company can charge a closing/settlement fee for lets say $500, which is inclusive of the various things involved in that service such as administrative work, notary service, wire or courier costs, but they do not have to itemize to us what makes up the $500 and so we have no obligation for disclosing an itemization of those various costs that make up the whole.

However, if the closing attorney/title company provides us an itemization of all of those costs, such as $300 settlement, $100 notary, $50 wire and $50 courier, then we likewise would itemize these on the LE and CD.

Correct?

Sounds correct to me.

What would occur if on the LE the fees were all inclusive (Closing/Settlement, admin work, notary, wire, courier, etc.), but when the CD was created the fees were itemized?

Would we include all those itemized fees as part of the 10% aggregate or would they have to be fully cured since fees like the admin work, notary, wire, courier etc. were not specifically listed on the LE, but appear on the CD?


Additional question: LE has a Final Abstracting Charge. The CD has both an Abstracting and Final Abstracting Charge. Unless we had a valid changed circumstances for adding the Abstracting charge and a proof new disclosure had been sent within 3 days of the changed circumstance, would we need to fully cure the Abstracting charge?

Thank you

Your services and fee descriptions have to match between your LE and CD.

1026.38(h)(4) The services and costs disclosed pursuant to paragraphs (f) and (g) of this section on the Closing Disclosure shall be labeled using terminology that describes the item disclosed, in a manner that is consistent with the descriptions or prescribed labels, as applicable, used for such items on the Loan Estimate pursuant to § 1026.37. The creditor must also list the items on the Closing Disclosure in the same sequential order as on the Loan Estimate pursuant to § 1026.37.

I was wondering if the borrowers shopped for the title services, as that would explain the difference in terminology from LE to CD. Not every title service provider is going to label their fees exactly the same. It would also relieve you of any thoughts of curing. But otherwise, yes, i agree with Randy.

What would be the solution if the service and fee descriptions do not match between the LE (inclusive) and CD (itemized) and the loan has already closed? Would we need to redisclose with the itemized fees combined to match what was shown on the LE and would we need to cure any of those fees?

That is certainly true. But the creditor is still responsible for the fee descriptions appearing on the LE and CloD and for ensuring they are the identical and in the same alphabetic order (except that a service and fee can migrate from section C on the LE to section B on the CloD without triggering a violation on the order of the presentation). The creditor has to take the services from the service provider's invoice and map them to the CloD descriptions the creditor uses.

How can a loan close with fees and services that do not match? How in the world are you tracking your estimated charges disclosed on the LE and compare them to the final fees on the your CD for tolerance violation consideration? This is all pretty basic TRID requirements and if for some reason your institution is just starting to do mortgage lending, then I would suggest hiring a consultant to set up your disclosure processes. If you are not new to mortgage lending, then your institution has some serious problems and you need a consultant to help you through your remediation efforts.

This is far more serious than a chat in these threads.

So even an isolated incident of the LE and CD fee descriptions not matching is essentially unresolvable?

Well it is resolvable, but not after the fact and possibly not without a cure.

I believe that if the only error on the CloD is LE and CD service descriptions that don't match or they're not in the correct order, they may be resolved under 1026.19(f)(2)(iv) Changes due to clerical errors.

This won't work if the amounts are wrong.

Thank you both for the information.