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#2237279 - 05/27/20 07:29 PM CIP for customer with a POA
BJ Blazko Offline
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Person wants to open an account with us for a non-customer for whom they are a POA. What do I need for CIP for the subject of the POA (not the POA themselves)?

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#2237281 - 05/27/20 08:31 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA BJ Blazko
rlcarey Offline
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Whatever you need to open any other account.
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#2237316 - 05/28/20 04:06 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA BJ Blazko
John Burnett Offline
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Start by getting your labels straight.
  • POA means power of attorney, which is a legal document in which one person (the principal) appoints another person or persons to act as the agent(s) for the principal, acting on behalf of the principal.
  • Attorney-in-fact (or AIF) is the person appointed to act as agent under the POA


For CIP purposes, you must obtain information from your customer. The CIP regulation states that the AIF or agent is your customer only if the Principal cannot legally open the account him/herself. That would be the case, for example, if the principal is incompetent. If the principal is incompetent and cannot open the account, the AIF will be considered your customer for purposes of the CIP regulation.

If I name Randy my attorney-in-fact in a power of attorney, but I am still competent when Randy opens an account in my name, I am your customer, and will have legal access to the account (you can require that I sign the signature card). You will get my name, street address, DOB and SSN, and verify my identity. Your bank's CIP may require that you get similar information from Randy (although the CIP regulation doesn't require it). You will also want a copy of the power of attorney or a certification from Randy that the POA is still valid. You will need to ensure that the POA permits Randy to complete banking contracts and transactions on my behalf.

But if at the time Randy opens the account, he says that I have been judged incompetent, I can't have account access, and Randy will be your customer for CIP purposes. You'll get and verify ID info on him. You may also get info on me such as my SSN for interest reporting purposes, but you won't get my signature. Of course, you will still get the copy of the POA or a certification that it is still valid.
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#2237331 - 05/28/20 07:56 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA John Burnett
BJ Blazko Offline
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very helpful- thank you!

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#2244743 - 10/28/20 02:54 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA John Burnett
GrannieTwo Offline
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I have just read the thread and have a question regarding this topic. If our customer requests presents POA stating that daughter is now her AIF, who happens to be standing with our customer, her mother, we have been updating the signature card to add POA and have had the mother sign along with the AIF. We also CIP the AIF. In this same scenario, the daughter lives in another state and is not with her mother, we still update the signature card adding POA and list what information the mother provides for the AIF. We then tell the mother that in the event her daughter would need to start handling the paying of bills, the daughter would have to present ID so we would have a copy of her signature. I am now questioning myself if we are handling this correctly. I have the Illinois Documentation manual from a seminar that addresses POA but not signature cards. Can you clarify for me the handling of the signature card and if we are doing this correctly or not? Thank you in advance
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#2244760 - 10/28/20 04:37 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA BJ Blazko
rlcarey Offline
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Signature cards are not a regulatory issue. Whether you have the AIF sign a signature card is totally a bank decision after consulting with your legal counsel.
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#2244775 - 10/28/20 08:40 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA BJ Blazko
John Burnett Offline
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Also, if Mom isn't legally incapacitated, she is your customer for CIP purposes, not the AIF, as far as the regulation is concerned. If your policy also calls for applying CIP to the AIF, you need to do it or risk being cited in a BSA/AML exam for not adhering to your own policy.
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#2244786 - 10/29/20 01:25 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA John Burnett
GrannieTwo Offline
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Thank you both. You have given us direction that we will use. Appreciate it.
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For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2Cor 12:10

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#2253349 - 05/03/21 02:45 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA John Burnett
Amanda Offline
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How would you handle it if the person is in the jail and the AIF wants to open an account and the POA for the person in jail allows the AIF to open bank account?

I believe we would need all of the CIP of the person but since he is not 'incompetent or incapacitated,' can we still open the account if we are able to gather all of the required CIP of the person in jail?

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#2253383 - 05/03/21 08:53 PM Re: CIP for customer with a POA BJ Blazko
John Burnett Offline
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You CIP the jailbird since he is legally competent to open the account, and if the incarcerated individual can't provide you what you require, you can't open the account, even with the AIF.
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