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#2249339 - 02/18/21 12:01 AM CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission?
Anonymous
Unregistered

I just watched a webinar on the ABA's site and it looks like, starting in the summer of 2021, CRCM continuing education credits will now be $50 for each webinar that isn't pre-approved or an ABA training program. Is that how you read it too? That could add up quick!

https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/1782255982931613455

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#2249352 - 02/18/21 06:07 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
DeeQ Offline
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That is true, all of the webinars we are creating have to go to the ABA to get certified, it costs us $200 a pop for each webinar we submit for CE credit.
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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#2249353 - 02/18/21 06:11 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
FedupFred
Unregistered

Ok, I'm calling it: continuing education credits to support a previously-achieved professional certification for bank compliance officers are a racket.

You need to be able to demonstrate to your regulator that you are qualified. You can do this with your diploma, degree, experience, and resume. If you have previously been certified by some external party in the industry as regards your specific position, then that says a lot about your qualifications too.

But, what's the real value, to us, as bankers, to continue to keep this certification up to date every year? I think the whole thing is designed primarily to ensure a cash flow to the entities that issue these certifications, some of which get a lot of their revenue from lobbying activities. You pay annual fees for your certification (Why? what are you getting, in exchange for that $100 or $200?), and you are told you must get X hours per year of continuing education credits in order to "maintain" your certification status.

I say Bah to that. You took the training, you took the test, you get the letters, and nothing will ever change that.

Now, we also have the requirement to demonstrate to regulators that we are staying aware of changes in our industry, such as changing fraud schemes, new laws and regs, and so on. But you can do that by taking whatever internal and external training you can find, as needed, to stay current. It's just that there is a wide gap between the amount you actually need to stay current, vs. the amount required by these organizations in order for them to consider your certification to be still "maintained" in their records. We don't need those organizations to do that for us. We're doing it, because they say that's how it's done. Regulators aren't telling us that it's necessary. We're just swallowing a vendor's juicy bait, along with the hook.

I say, once you are experienced and qualified, then depending on your organization's requirements and your regulator's expectations, it is very likely you can stop paying your annual certification fees, and you can stop chasing "credits" to "maintain" your certification too.

This year, I'm taking all my training from free, online sources. An internet search for the topic of interest will lead you straight to such training, which is sometimes put together by reputable organizations (international AML organizations, universities, and so on). I'll watch those and make a record of it. I'm done chasing "20 hours per year, 10 of which must be live" type requirements imposed on me by external organizations.

Now, there may be more professional designations (architecture? dentistry?) that do indeed require a documented number of credits per year, according to state law. Mortgage professionals may require certain types of training, to be up to date with the NMLS stuff. But here I'm just talking about those 4 or 5 letters that a lot of us high-school educated bankers got 5 or 10 years ago, and then got billed through the nose for, for the rest of our careers.

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#2249364 - 02/18/21 07:44 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
DeeQ Offline
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However, rules change, laws change, needs change. Continuing ediucaiton is important. You need to stay abreast of all new issuances and nuances of change.

Plus, industry expectations change as well. We, complinace folk, need to stay ahead of that learning curve.
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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#2249366 - 02/18/21 08:06 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Norman Paperman Offline
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Without having read all of this, I'll chime in and say that I'm letting mine go inactive. I did the work and got the cert. It hangs on my wall. While I agree it's important to stay up to date on changes, I don't have the time to keep up with all of the CE requirements. Some years I get more training than others.
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CRCM

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#2249385 - 02/18/21 10:01 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
ACBbank Offline
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New York City
My AML certification expired recently and the company was looking for $X amount to renew. I was fine with the membership fee but told them spending an additional $X wasn't happening. All budgets, including training, have been slashed due to COVID and I wasn't in a position to request additional funds. Three days later they emailed me and "waived" the continuing education requirements.
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#2249390 - 02/18/21 10:24 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
InFairness, CRCM Online
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InFairness, CRCM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 620
USA
Originally Posted by FedupFred
Ok, I'm calling it: continuing education credits to support a previously-achieved professional certification for bank compliance officers are a racket.

You need to be able to demonstrate to your regulator that you are qualified. You can do this with your diploma, degree, experience, and resume. If you have previously been certified by some external party in the industry as regards your specific position, then that says a lot about your qualifications too.

But, what's the real value, to us, as bankers, to continue to keep this certification up to date every year? I think the whole thing is designed primarily to ensure a cash flow to the entities that issue these certifications, some of which get a lot of their revenue from lobbying activities. You pay annual fees for your certification (Why? what are you getting, in exchange for that $100 or $200?), and you are told you must get X hours per year of continuing education credits in order to "maintain" your certification status.


As listened to the webinar, all I could think was that ABA must be struggling to compete with other training providers, so they're implementing this to try to force people into ABA training. They might not have to take that approach if their training was better. So much of it is too basic for those of us that are older than dirt and have been in the industry forever.
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#2249421 - 02/19/21 01:38 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Norman Paperman
Anonymous
Unregistered

Continuing education is a MUST for most, if not all professions...lawyers, doctors, accountants, pilots, etc. As DeeQ stated, things change. Professionals (in any industry) should be able to demonstrate they stay abreast of changes. Seems like continuing education is the best way to do that. I'm sorry, but those whining about continuing education sound like just that - whiners.

Let's hope your doctor doesn't decide he "doesn't have time" top learn the new medical diagnosis that might save your life. Or your defense lawyer "didn't have time" to read up on new criminal court procedure.

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#2249431 - 02/19/21 02:49 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
ACBbank Offline
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New York City
I'm not sure that comparing a medical professional, who may be making life altering decisions, to compliance professionals is comparing apples to apples.
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#2249439 - 02/19/21 03:46 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Norman Paperman Offline
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I'm impressed that you had the courage to come out and call me a whiner because I've made the professional decision to not keep up with my certification. I didn't say I don't have time for CE. I said I don't have time for all of the CE required by the cert. There are a lot of ways to keep abreast of changes without taking time away from work to attend conferences.

I agree with ACB. Pretty sure there aren't any lives depending on my CE credits.

Go outside and get some fresh air.
_________________________
Maybe you just wanna fly the plane yourself. Well good luck pressing take off, then auto pilot, then land.


CRCM

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#2249454 - 02/19/21 05:32 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

"There are a lot of ways to keep abreast of changes without taking time away from work to attend conferences."

It seems to me that the ABA is doing this to try to "force" CRCM's into attending their annual conference and/or other training programs. I really don't like that they are trying to force me to attend their training programs.

Looking at this further... If a webinar wasn't offered by the ABA and isn't pre-approved (how many webinar providers are going to suddenly shell out big bucks for each webinar to be "pre-approved"), I will have to pay $50 for EACH submission? With 60 CE credits required every 3 years, attending 30, 2 hour webinars would cost and EXTRA $1,500!!!! Even at $500 a year (over 3 years), that is INSAIN! Even if all the programs attended were 5 CE hours each, I would have 12 at $50 for an extra $600, and I really doubt my employer will cover this new expense.

I get that the ABA can do what they want, but this sort of feels like a dying industry that can't figure out how to innovate and survive without sacrificing their customers.

Maybe its time to pursue a different certification, or just let it drop like others have said.

Wow, ABA.

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#2249457 - 02/19/21 05:54 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
InFairness, CRCM Online
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InFairness, CRCM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 620
USA
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Continuing education is a MUST for most, if not all professions...lawyers, doctors, accountants, pilots, etc. As DeeQ stated, things change. Professionals (in any industry) should be able to demonstrate they stay abreast of changes. Seems like continuing education is the best way to do that. I'm sorry, but those whining about continuing education sound like just that - whiners.

Let's hope your doctor doesn't decide he "doesn't have time" top learn the new medical diagnosis that might save your life. Or your defense lawyer "didn't have time" to read up on new criminal court procedure.



Not sure how you get whining from the comments in this thread. It is quite possible to demonstrate your knowledge of current regulatory practices without spending thousands annually to attend conferences. Conversely, it is quite possible to attend the trade association conferences and learn nothing because you spend all your time schmoozing.

And, to follow on to your analogies, neither the AMA nor the bar association requires its members to get all their continuing education from them or pay thousands in extra fees if they don't. The ABA is quite tone deaf to push this change, with the associated massive increase in costs, at a time when financial institutions are under enormous margin pressure because of the low interest rate environment and are seeking to cut costs everywhere.
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#2249487 - 02/19/21 10:58 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Q Offline
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 49
Cries in CAMS and CFE CE/renewals frown

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#2249488 - 02/19/21 11:35 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
rlcarey Offline
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Galveston, TX
It has always been a racket - certifications made up out of thin air to make the association money. Anybody can take a test and get a certification - some of those however could not effectively manage a compliance department or function if their life depended on it. They have conjured up I think 9 of these certification programs now and call them the "recognized standard". Recognized by whom I ask. Sure they are nice and it does promote wider learning especially in new people entering into the field, but this sort of internal money making scheme has even further soured my opinion on them for seasoned compliance professionals.
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#2252695 - 04/20/21 07:08 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

Hi- I have a question. Leaving the whole racket/CE discussion aside, what was the tangible benefit at your current employer after receiving your CRCM? Did anyone experience an increase in income or a promotion (AVP, VP, SVP, etc.)?

(I rather use this thread than start a whole new one)

TIA.

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#2252847 - 04/23/21 01:23 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
ComplyGuy Offline
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Joined: May 2015
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A couple of things from my perspective.

1. I'm not a fan of this change. It is definitely coming off as money hungry by the ABA.

2. There are still other options to get the credits without going to a conference. I'd imagine lots of state bankers association conferences and trainings will have preapproved credit. As do several of the online course providers like FIS Regulatory University and BVS.

3. I do think there is value to the certification. When you say "recognized standard" I'd say the people recognizing are the industry. If you want a compliance job at a larger bank, having a CRCM is almost a must have. If it isn't required, it is at least strongly preferred, and having that on your resume gets you in the door. If you are younger in your career and want to advance, I'd strongly recommend obtaining it for the doors that will open. It will set you apart from other candidates with similar on the job experience.

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#2254555 - 05/27/21 07:13 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
ComplianceGurl, CRCM Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 497
I did receive a bump in pay and title after I passed the exam and was told I wouldn't have without it.

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#2254557 - 05/27/21 07:57 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Andy_Z Offline
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Andy_Z
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On the Net
I became a CRCM in 1993. It was somewhat meaningful back then as few had it, and those who did were certainly book smart. It doesn't mean they were good compliance managers, but they were knowledgeable. My CEO called the ABA and asked about the program when I requested the bank pay for the testing. When I passed, I got a bonus and was presented it in front of our board. The CEO found out I was one of only a few hundred (maybe it was that many, I'm not sure any more) and made a big deal of it.

That said, the CPEs seem necessary, but the ABA is definitely taking advantage of what qualifies and what doesn't. Tell me if this isn't reminiscent of some banks getting cited for exorbitant fees - we are charged a fee to have our program accredited for CPEs, one fee for those who will listen live, and another fee for those who will listen to the replay? What sense does that make as to accrediting one program? They get to double dip on that one.

Without changing the topic, to my fellow CRCM's or other programs requiring CPEs, how important is it to you to get credit for a particular webinar that you want - will you pass on it if there is no credit, or take it anyway because you want to learn on that topic or from that instructor? I'm not including signing up for something near year end because you need 3 more CPEs.
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#2254558 - 05/27/21 08:10 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
InFairness, CRCM Online
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InFairness, CRCM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 620
USA
It will be very hard to justify continuing education credits if I have to pay webinar registration and a CPE submission fee. Budgets are tight and net interest margins are compressed.
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#2255022 - 06/08/21 07:05 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

Did not help in any way. It has only cost me time and money

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#2257075 - 07/22/21 06:47 PM Re: CRCM CE credits to be $50 for each submission? Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

I was just looking on my CRCM profile and saw this statement: Effective February 1, 2022 there will be a $50 fee per program to submit CE for a formal review if the sponsor did not have the program pre-approved.

Lase I read, I thought the $50 fee was starting this summer (maybe August). Did I miss something or does anyone know anything about the change to February 1, 2022?

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