Learn More - Click Here!

Page 2 of 2 1 2
New Reply Thread Options
#2259546 - 09/10/21 04:59 PM Re: Employee Banking HappyGilmore
raitchjay Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,568
OK
Originally Posted by HappyGilmore
Originally Posted by Anonymous
But if a bank employee visits an ATM once a week, we would notice. We would have internal discussions about it: is so-and-so a gambler? Why all the cash withdrawals? Does he ever deposit any cash, any at all? Why?

we have an ATM in our operations center, i see people hitting it daily, some people daily before going to lunch. why would you waste time scrutinizing how frequently an employee takes out cash simply because they are an employee? wasted time by the bank

The only reason i can think of is that a lot of people are nosy. But yeah, i agree with Happy....wasted time by the bank.
_________________________
I'm fixin' to fix that.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259547 - 09/10/21 05:04 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
P*Q Offline

Power Poster
P*Q
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,437
Somewhere
Hey, if anyone at the bank wants to look at my account (at my own bank) and question my transactions to the package store "once or twice per week"? Go ahead, have at it. Come spend a day with me in my department and all the roles I have and you'll understand why. laugh

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259550 - 09/10/21 05:13 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
raitchjay Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,568
OK
I'm not a BSA guy, but aren't SARs supposed to be activities with suspicion of breaking the law? What law is someone breaking by gambling or paying cash for their lunch?
_________________________
I'm fixin' to fix that.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259556 - 09/10/21 05:35 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
#Just Jay Offline
10K Club
#Just Jay
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,389
Cheeseheadland
^^^exactly.

I am a BSA guy, and this:

For instance, if a bank employee withdraws $300 in cash once a month, we wouldn't even notice. But if a bank employee visits an ATM once a week, we would notice. We would have internal discussions about it: is so-and-so a gambler? Why all the cash withdrawals? Does he ever deposit any cash, any at all? Why? Does he pay any bills through this account? Why aren't there any "normal" transactions here? Who lives on cash? What doesn't he want his bank to see? What is he buying that he would want to only use cash? etc. It's a very short walk from "This employee's activity is weird" to "We have to file a SAR."

Being an employee lowers the SAR threshold to zero, and raises the interest in cash usage considerably.


...is a poor understanding and application of one's BSA responsibility.

All the more reason to do the majority of your personal banking anywhere but where you work.
_________________________
I don't repeat gossip, so listen closely...

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259563 - 09/10/21 06:28 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
Valley girl Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 285
TX
I have the honor of sitting closest to our island ATM. Sometimes I may perform several transactions in one day because we will have members tell us it is not working and I step out to check the ATM. Or service will have been performed and our vendor will ask me to perform a couple of transactions to make sure all cassettes are functioning properly. Especially with the quality of the some of the bills going into our ATMs.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259577 - 09/10/21 07:59 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

If gambling was a suspicious activity, our entire office would be fired.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259578 - 09/10/21 08:01 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by TMatt87
I bank where I work, but I never use my debit card except for ATMs. So my account history is my payroll, credit card payments, transfers to an online savings account, and ATM withdrawals. Not a lot to scrutinize.

Another anon here. The above statement, for me, is a pretty good illustration of why you shouldn't bank where you work. While a person may feel that there is nothing much to scrutinize because they aren't using debit cards (or because they only withdraw cash and never deposit any), the above scenario may actually be of interest to an internal reviewer, depending on volume, amounts, frequency, etc. (As illustrated in the thread, an anon poster questions, "So you pay cash for everything?" and RockChucker pops up with a theory; so if they were your co-workers, yeah, you'd be getting discussed and scrutinized if your account was flagged for review or was subjected to an automatic periodic review merely because you are an employee.)

For instance, if a bank employee withdraws $300 in cash once a month, we wouldn't even notice. But if a bank employee visits an ATM once a week, we would notice. We would have internal discussions about it: is so-and-so a gambler? Why all the cash withdrawals? Does he ever deposit any cash, any at all? Why? Does he pay any bills through this account? Why aren't there any "normal" transactions here? Who lives on cash? What doesn't he want his bank to see? What is he buying that he would want to only use cash? etc. It's a very short walk from "This employee's activity is weird" to "We have to file a SAR."

Being an employee lowers the SAR threshold to zero, and raises the interest in cash usage considerably. While there might not be a lot to scrutinize, there would be zero to scrutinize if there was no account at the employing bank.

Is that the same for customers? If a customer uses an ATM several times a week, that would be suspicious?

Our BSA would be from floor to ceiling with SARS if that were the case.

Seems to me it's just being nosy.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259615 - 09/13/21 02:23 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

I'm the anon who posted the "ATM several times a week" example. Some have opined it's a waste of BSA's time and/or "just being nosy."

I can't disagree, and yet, it happens that you are illustrating my point. The activity doesn't have to be suspicious to you, or be criminal in nature, to end up being discussed by BSA staff or by an entire group of management that, with BSA, makes the decisions for SARs. So while I personally wouldn't care a bit if a branch employee got $20 out every day for lunch, here is a real-life scenario that crossed my desk in recent history:

Employee A uses our ATMs for the max allowable withdrawal limit ($400 a pop) multiple times per week, at multiple other branches other than where she works. Timing indicates leaving work as often as twice a day (mid-morning and mid-afternoon) to make a run to another branch for a withdrawal. This was referred to BSA on a suspicious activity notice sent to BSA.

Our process is that whenever something potentially suspicious is referred, it goes to a group for deciding on a SAR. That group happens to include Employee A's boss. So, all imaginary "nosiness" aside, that employee's transactional choices are now getting talked about internally, and could end up on a SAR. Easiest thing that she could have done is choose to bank somewhere other than where she works. She doesn't like getting cash where she works anyway (at her branch) but drives to other areas of the city to do it. Is there anything criminal there? Probably not. Is it weird? That's subjective. Weird enough for a SAR? Subjective also. If an examiner finds this activity and asks us whether we filed a SAR, would we want to say yes or no? Is this employee creating risk for the bank, merely by banking here? I'd say, Yes.

Now throw in what happened with another employee a few months before that, at a different branch: in addition to arguably "excessive" ATM use for large amounts withdrawn, that one was also making frequent cash deposits of $500 to $1,000. So you check to see if the branch is in balance, and it does seem to be. This leads to the "Are they a frequent gambler?" discussion. It's not nosiness, but looking for information that may make a SAR avoidable. We don't want to see a lot of cash taken out plus a lot of cash deposited, for any customer, unless we know why.

As far as whether gambling and banking are compatible pursuits: my opinion is that bankers should certainly not be habitual gamblers. For one thing, serious gamblers may get into debt situations in which, on the low end of risk, they may end up in dire financial straights or end up at risk of losing their homes and life savings, all because of a gambling addiction. For initial and continued employment, we expect our bankers to be in a sound financial situation personally, and capable of managing their own finances without high-risk financial behavior being a factor. A financially desperate person is not someone who you want to be in a position to have to resist bribes or other financial incentives to make bad decisions on behalf of the bank. On the high end of risk, a gambler may end up feeling driven to "borrow" cash from their branch hoping to earn it back through gambling and pay it back without anyone noticing. I've known two bankers over the years who were fired for exactly that issue. A "first thing in the morning" cash audit revealed a different cash count than what was done at end-of-day, and their blubbering defense was "I was going to pay it back..." Turns out they were habitual gamblers who were desperate to finally transform themselves from losers into winners. In my experience the vast majority of gamblers are losers (financially); the house always wins.

It's also a reputational risk issue. If your customers are at the casino every weekend, do you really want them seeing your Senior Loan Officer at the same craps tables, every weekend? One adage is that the appearance of impropriety is almost as bad as the impropriety itself. If a customer decides (wrongly) that the banker is probably gambling with money from the bank vault, that dangerous rumor can spread quickly. And as we all learned in 2020, people these days will believe literally anything.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2259618 - 09/13/21 02:44 PM Re: Employee Banking Anonymous
rlcarey Online
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 77,265
Galveston, TX
Nothing what you described (outside of the two past employees that embezzled money) have anything to do with BSA. Does your security department maybe want to watch for this sort of activity for the reason that you stated? That is a business decision. SAR filings only come into play when a law has or is suspected to have been broken. If gambling is legal in your State, the fact that an employee gambles is neither here nor there. BSA comes into when a law is broken. The rest of this is an Human Resources issue that should be handled through your employee code of conduct.
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Quick Reply:
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled




Moderator:  MagicCity, P*Q, Truffle Royale