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#2265220 - 01/26/22 01:25 PM MLB HOF
edAudit Offline
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I was under the impression that David Ortiz was accused of steroid use, just Like Clemons Bonds and Sosa.

Just an observation not to disparage the qualifications of any. of them.
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#2265224 - 01/26/22 02:33 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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I was curious about this when I saw he made the HoF. I think he was accused but there wasn't a lot of support for it like there was for Clemons, Bonds, and Sosa. I remember some years back some morons accused Piazza and Pujols of using PEDs but there was no proof to support it.
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#2265240 - 01/26/22 04:31 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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Ortiz tested positive in 2003 but Clemons and Bonds did not test positive at any time that we know of. Bonds admitted that he may have taken "cream and clear" steroids in 'error". No such admission from Cleamons.
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#2265269 - 01/26/22 07:24 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
baseball, the sport America forgot...file this under *yawn*
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#2265274 - 01/26/22 07:57 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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Did he test positive Ed? For some reason I don't recollect that, but I could be wrong.
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#2265275 - 01/26/22 08:00 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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Ortiz' "positive" was later amended as basically "inconclusive" if i recall.
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#2265289 - 01/26/22 09:27 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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I will use a Boston source

https://www.boston.com/sports/david...003-ped-test-response-hall-of-fame-vote/

Ortiz never tested positive for any banned substances after Major League Baseball implemented a formal program starting in 2004. However, he was reportedly one of the players who turned in a positive sample in 2003 when the league did confidential survey testing of players as it attempted to get an understanding of the scope of performance enhancing drug usage in the sport.

MLB commissioner Rob Manfred also noted in a 2016 interview that it was “entirely possible” that despite appearing on the list, Ortiz may not have actually tested positive.

So, what does that say about the list??

I would not put Rodriguez in the same PED boat as he tested positive after 2004.
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#2265321 - 01/27/22 04:38 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Quote
he was reportedly one of the players who turned in a positive sample in 2003 when the league did confidential survey testing of players

*gasp*
you mean to tell me the "confidential" testing may not really have been confidential?
*gasp again*
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#2265333 - 01/27/22 05:50 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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On another HOF note, i was happy to hear about Tony Oliva's induction. Great career cut short by injury.
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#2265434 - 01/28/22 06:29 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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Tony Oliva was before my time and played for a small market team. I am not sure looking at Stats only if he should be in. There are a lot of players with similar stats that will not be in.
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#2265435 - 01/28/22 06:49 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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He was kinda before my time too...i caught the tale end of his career. I had his baseball card and became a fan that way. I agree that his overall stats (not his batting avg. which is quite good) are marginal......i guess that's why he's a veterans committee addition. But if Ron Santo and George Kelley are in, i'm good with Oliva being in. I do recall that he had some pretty serious knee injuries late in his career which hampered his production the last 5 years or so.
Last edited by raitchjay; 01/28/22 06:50 PM.
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#2265436 - 01/28/22 06:51 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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Oliva won multiple batting titles if i recall.....to me, he's one of those 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' guys when it comes to stats. If you just look at his years played, Oliva's stats look one way. I would argue that in reality, he had more of a Kirby Puckett kind of career.......very good early (and then Puckett's career just ended, while Oliva's continued, but at a reduced rate of production due to injury). Oliva from 65-72 or so was definitely one of the best players in the AL.
Last edited by raitchjay; 01/28/22 07:19 PM.
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#2265445 - 01/28/22 07:54 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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There are a lot of players that fit the same bill but should not be in/ Ron Santo and George Kelley are two that should not be in either.
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#2265454 - 01/28/22 08:52 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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The one player that is missing from the HOF that deserves to be in is Dale Murphy. He was a 2X MVP on some pretty bad Atlanta teams.

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#2265481 - 01/30/22 10:07 PM Re: MLB HOF New2This30
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Originally Posted by Stephen
The one player that is missing from the HOF that deserves to be in is Dale Murphy. He was a 2X MVP on some pretty bad Atlanta teams.
Yes!
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#2265485 - 01/31/22 02:20 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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I saw some of Dale Murphy growing up as a kid and thought he was a great player. Has anyone gone back and looked at the WAR of these players? I feel that sometimes the WAR will tell a good story if the normal counting stats do not.
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#2265486 - 01/31/22 02:54 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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I'd need to understand WAR and how it's derived first. I can't say i'm much of a fan of all of these newfangled stats. I always felt HR, RBI ,avg. etc. told me all i needed to know.

Just to add....i understand what WAR stands for (wins above replacement)...but it sounds more like a projection than an actual statistic (but i'll also add.....i do not know how WAR is "calculated"....perhaps if i did, i'd recant). I like my stats black and white.
Last edited by raitchjay; 01/31/22 03:14 PM.
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#2265575 - 02/01/22 05:12 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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The problem with batting average is it doesn't include walks. Walks are backbreaking to a pitcher. I've always felt OBP or OPS was a better indicating than batting average.

RBIs is a tough one. I can see both sides of the argument on this one. Home Runs are home runs and I think we all agree that they are an important counting stat.
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#2265581 - 02/01/22 05:38 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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I didn't mean to stop at HR, RBI, batting avg. I agree walks are important, as are runs scores, as are stolen bases, etc. I got curious and googled WAR....it seemed like voodoo stats to me.
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#2265595 - 02/01/22 06:53 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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We need to factor in defensive stats as well.
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#2265596 - 02/01/22 07:16 PM Re: MLB HOF edAudit
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Completely agree

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