Thread Options
#2265539 - 01/31/22 09:58 PM Unauthorized-Deceased
Jenny Roberts Offline
100 Club
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 156
Tennessee
We have a customer that passed away in which his debit card was used the day off his passing and a few days after running up over $1800.00 in charges. The co-owner is claiming the deceased customer's daughter used his debit card but we have no proof other than 1 transaction has possible video at an ATM but is hard to see. We understand that under REG E, since he is deceased, it would be considered unauthorized because we don't know if he gave his daughter permission to use the debit card but we know that the co-owner has also taken money from the customer when he was alive so she is not a trusting person. Would I be correct in stating that the transactions would be considered unauthorized under REG E and that since she was still a co-owner she can make the claim? Would the bank be wrong if we gave the provisional credit but put the credit in his savings account in which no one is on so it will have to go to his estate?

Return to Top
Deposits and Payments
#2265543 - 01/31/22 10:15 PM Re: Unauthorized-Deceased Jenny Roberts
HappyGilmore Offline
10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,449
Pulling people out of the ditc...
you have the account holder stating unauthorized, run your Reg E investigation, and take whatever action is required from said investigation. provisional or final credit, if warranted, would go back to the account the funds were taken from.
_________________________
Providing alternative truths since the invention of time

Return to Top
#2265664 - 02/02/22 08:27 PM Re: Unauthorized-Deceased Jenny Roberts
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,593
Cape Cod
I would try to figure out that video of one of the transactions. If you can't determine it's the surviving account owner, you'll probably have to determine the transactions were not authorized. Shut down his card if you haven't done so already.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top
#2265676 - 02/02/22 09:22 PM Re: Unauthorized-Deceased Jenny Roberts
Andy_Z Offline
10K Club
Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,468
On the Net
Let's slice and dice the question and take it one bite at a time.

1. customer that passed away - debit card was used the day off his passing and - after.

2. co-owner is claiming the deceased customer's daughter used his debit card - no proof other than 1 transaction has possible video at an ATM but is hard to see.

3. under REG E, - he is deceased, it would be unauthorized because we don't know if he gave - permission

4. we know that the co-owner has also taken money from the customer - so she is not a trusting person.

**Would I be correct in stating that the transactions would be considered unauthorized under REG E and that since she was still a co-owner she can make the claim?
=== A co-owner could make that claim as could the executor of the estate. Back up a moment. What are your state's laws on the co-owner now owing the account in total? Or is it part of the deceased estate? You must know this to separate who owns those funds.

If a claim has been made by the person responsible for the account, your clock has started. Obviously you cannot ask the deceased and likely any authority given ended with his passing.

You say the co-owner took the deceased money in the past. Is it safe to assume the deceased had funds going into the account which may be attributed to just his earnings? Typically a co-owner has the rights to withdraw all the funds in an account. Assuming this is your case that co-owner may not have handled the deceased funds in as moral a manner as some may like, but ensure you're considering the legal aspects of ownership.

The fact that you may not trust this person has nothing to do with the claim as it must be investigated. Was the person who withdrew the funds authorized to do so or did an authorized person benefit from the transaction? I believe the deceased is out of the picture unless these were burial expenses or for a debt of the deceased and state laws allow the payment.

The EFTA says the burden of proof is on the bank as to liability in the claim. You need to review the transactions and talk to those who may have done the transfers. What do they say? What can the bank prove? There is no reasonable doubt requirement, but what would a jury say? The bank is required to complete a reasonable investigation.

**Would the bank be wrong if we gave the provisional credit but put the credit in his savings account in which no one is on so it will have to go to his estate?
==Yes, the bank would likely be wrong, but let's explore this point. Typically we want to credit the account the funds came from. That is clean. Reg E typically says to credit the consumer's account. Could that be the savings? Possibly but the question is, who owned the funds that were taken - was it the deceased owner and/or co-owner of the account, or was it individual property state laws say now belong to the estate alone? You need to know this to credit "the consumer's account."

You need to be aware of ownership as it relates to any future use of the funds as well.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

Return to Top
#2265741 - 02/03/22 05:04 PM Re: Unauthorized-Deceased Jenny Roberts
TaraSue Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 47
Jenny,

I'm stuck on the depositing it to his savings part. The co-owner of the checking is entitled to the funds in the checking account. That would normally NOT go through the estate at all. In my mind, that means the provisional credit must go into the checking. This co-owner has, in fact, been harmed by these transactions so putting the provisional credit where she can not access it would not seem to be an appropriate action, even if you suspect she has abused the checking account in the past she was, technically, entitled to use the funds.
Last edited by John Burnett; 02/08/22 09:28 PM. Reason: couple of typos
Return to Top

Moderator:  John Burnett