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#2268202 - 03/25/22 01:08 PM Grandma sends Debit Card #
Susielou Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 337
Midwest
Grandma wanted to pay grandchild $200. Grandchild told grandma to give her debit card numbers and she would set up a Venmo so she could send money to her. Grandchild then proceeded to use the debit card numbers to make other purchases totaling $1700. Grandma says she only authorized $200 but did admit to giving the grandchild the numbers and cvc code. How do we proceed in this scenario? Grandma doesn't want to pay more than $200.

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Deposits and Payments
#2268203 - 03/25/22 01:18 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
rlcarey Offline
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rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 78,958
Galveston, TX
See below - fire up your elder abuse notification process also.

2(m) Unauthorized Electronic Fund Transfer

2. Authority. If a consumer furnishes an access device and grants authority to make transfers to a person (such as a family member or co-worker) who exceeds the authority given, the consumer is fully liable for the transfers unless the consumer has notified the financial institution that transfers by that person are no longer authorized.
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#2268206 - 03/25/22 02:01 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
SteveDave Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 62
It is one of the only things that constantly makes me just as mad as the last event. A kid taking advantage of their own grandparents... Sick... Assuming it is exactly as it seems.

Rlcarey per usual on point. "Fire up your elder abuse notification process"

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#2268558 - 04/01/22 03:10 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
IronP2717 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 124
Can the bank notify local law enforcement of grandchild's exploitation of the grandparent?

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#2268560 - 04/01/22 03:15 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
rlcarey Offline
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rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 78,958
Galveston, TX
I do not see why not. The Bank could also sue the grandchild to recover the bank's losses.
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#2268575 - 04/01/22 05:32 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
SteveDave Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 62
APS (depending on where you are in the states the name may change) and law enforcement, seem to me, totally fair.

You don't know the situation and it likely is not the first time this has happened. If it is the first time it is not likely this is the last time.

I go back and forth if it is too extreme but I do not think so.

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#2268583 - 04/01/22 06:26 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
HappyGilmore Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,449
Pulling people out of the ditc...
we have a local case that just came out, mom in her 90s, daughter and grandson have been pilfering her account over the years, to the tune of over $90k in the past 18 months. Came to light when grandson wanted to be added as signer on the account and bank wouldn't let him, he raised a big stink so bank did some more digging and "oops" moment when they found out all the money was going out...
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#2268618 - 04/01/22 10:22 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
Andy_Z Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,468
On the Net
While I would agree that grandma provided access, I'm certain the CFPB would opine on her "intentions." But g-ma gave the device and unfortunately for her, gave it in a form she couldn't really take back like with a debit card. In the case of a card, use authorization ends when the card is resecured by your consumer. If the kid steals g-mas card and uses it, that's unauthorized. Once the "code" is given and it is a defined access device, g-ma would need to close that account effectively to protect it.

As to the $90K, glad I'm not in that mess. There is no time limit to file a claim. My first recommendation would be to really dig back and ensure that you could get to the first transfer in the claim and establish the statement + 60 day period for unlimited liability to the consumer. The bank's loss would likely be a small part if the thefts were regular over 18 months.
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#2268748 - 04/06/22 06:18 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # HappyGilmore
John Burnett Online
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,593
Cape Cod
Originally Posted by HappyGilmore
we have a local case that just came out, mom in her 90s, daughter and grandson have been pilfering her account over the years, to the tune of over $90k in the past 18 months. Came to light when grandson wanted to be added as signer on the account and bank wouldn't let him, he raised a big stink so bank did some more digging and "oops" moment when they found out all the money was going out...

Does the bank have monitoring systems that might catch outflows averaging over $5,000 a month from a "seasoned citizen's" account, if it can be fine tuned adequately? Five grand over and above Mom's expected monthly outflows could have been a red flag earlier. Or would that be expecting too much from monitoring systems?
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#2268792 - 04/07/22 01:37 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
CalifDreamin Offline
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CalifDreamin
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,220
Far from Calif
Agree with filing a report with APS, especially if you are in a state where you are required to do so. However, we've been experiencing a lot of frustration here with that. We have several cases where it was either an adult child or grandchild who did this exact thing, and APS refused to investigate. We've had to take away debit card privileges because we do not want to incur any more losses. We are in a state where you are required to report, but staff is getting frustrated and wondering why report if APS refuses to do anything.
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#2268797 - 04/07/22 04:22 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
one deer Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 75
Any where but work
CalifDreamin we see the same thing here in our state. I continue to report as needed per unfolding events with our seniors. IMO LE is overwhelmed with all kinds of crimes that are more serious or detrimental to life and limb than this type of activity. I have never heard anything back on any of the situations I have reported, and yes it is frustrating.

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#2268824 - 04/07/22 09:19 PM Re: Grandma sends Debit Card # Susielou
Valley girl Offline
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 321
TX
I received a subpoena for a case I filed a report with APS on. It took close to a year, but the account was finally emptied of all funds - approximately $140,000.00. We had followed up with APS often during this year and did everything we legally could to stem the flow. One APS officer told me she had asked to be removed from the case because the person taking advantage was scary and violent.

Nobody from APS ever thought to interview us/me prior to the court date so when I appeared for the Zoom court date, they threw out everything I could include because I wasn't present for each transaction or interaction in the lobby and member service area. Before they discovered I had not been the teller/MSR for every transaction, someone on the court side had muted me and the judge got very angry with me. When someone discovered it was on the court's end, there was no apology. I was left feeling very discouraged about the whole experience.

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