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#2269098 - 04/14/22 01:22 PM Notice of Closing an Account
Bankwoman1 Offline
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Midwest
Ok. We have a customer who deposited a fraudulent check through our ATM and then proceeded to withdraw the funds the following day. This is not the first time she has committed fraud in this manner (No - I don't know why she wasn't closed out the first time). We are now out almost $5000. We are closing this account. My question is, this person is also on an account, jointly, with her mother. Mom has disability funds direct deposited into the account. We want this account closed since Ms Fraudster is also a joint owner. Do we need to give mom 30 days notice before closing this account due to her direct deposit? Or can we close the account immediately, due to one of the joint owners committing fraud, and then notify the mother that her account has been closed. Also, do we need to make the mothers direct deposit available to her in the next 30 days instead of returning it due to a closed account?

Thanks!

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#2269108 - 04/14/22 02:36 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
Bankwoman1 Offline
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So, this is my thought. We should go ahead and close the account but provide some type of arrangement to mom for her next direct deposit that will be sent within the next 30 days of account closing. Does this sound right?

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#2269112 - 04/14/22 02:52 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
rlcarey Offline
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Galveston, TX
Or send a certified letter to the mom stripping the daughter of account privileges. I am not sure why you want to punish the mom.
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#2269113 - 04/14/22 03:02 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
Bankwoman1 Offline
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Well, we don't necessarily want to punish mom, but our procedure is to not remove owner/signers from accounts. Now, we could obviously make an exception and ask mom to come in and sign a new signature card or send her a new signature card to sign. Wouldn't we want an updated signature card reflecting the change?

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#2269116 - 04/14/22 03:46 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
rlcarey Offline
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Yes - I think you could, but as you indicated, there is still some risk with that approach, I guess. It was an idea - I guess I am not saying that it was a good one smile
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#2269124 - 04/14/22 05:28 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
Bankwoman1 Offline
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Well Randy, I always appreciate all thoughts and ideas from you! smile

I will run my thoughts by everyone and let them decide what they want to do!

Thanks!!

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#2269156 - 04/15/22 01:18 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
TaraSue Offline
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Posts: 60
Just thinking this through. I hate to penalize the mom, but completely understand wanting to not keep the son as a customer. I'm always in the "talk to the customer" camp and often base my actions on that. Our bank does not allow removal of signers either, certainly not without the approval of both parties - which I'm guessing you might not be able to get. Maybe talk to the mom about opening another account, without her son on it, and help her with updating direct deposits, etc. Hopefully there is another adult child who could be added to the account to assist in times of need.

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#2269188 - 04/15/22 05:01 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
I don't think i have enough info to give a definitive, but some questions:

1. is daughter on account because mom is incapacitated in some way?
2. is mom aware of fraudulent activity on account?
3. will mom want to keep an account at your bank when you have told her daughter is a fraudster? much less when you press charges?
4. the bank is out $5,000 loss...how long will it take to recoup that loss via fees generated from mom's account(s)?

The first 3 can be answered by a conversation with your customer, the 4th is answered by your management team. I don't view this as punishing a client, i view this as saving the bank from future losses.
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#2269192 - 04/15/22 05:33 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
burkemi Offline
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I disagree with #4, by my understanding of the issue. Mom has nothing to do with daughter's fraud, so why is mom being held responsible - even indirectly - for the $5,000 loss caused by daughter?
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#2269197 - 04/15/22 11:22 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
TryingtoComply Offline
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The West
I don't know. Maybe the information is there, but I didn't see it. But the mother is on disability. Are you SURE she is not aware of the fraud? Maybe she does know about it and would have benefitted from the funds.
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#2269220 - 04/18/22 12:48 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
Bankwoman1 Offline
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Midwest
We did talk to the daughter and the mom. I believe mom and daughter live together. The first time we called, we were hung up on. When we called back and talked to the daughter she asked us not to tell her mom, which we were not going to go into specifics. We did tell mom that because of an issue with her daughter, we would need to close her current account, however, she could open an account in her name only or with another person. We also let her know that if she chose not to open another account, we would set up arrangements to get her any direct deposit money that came through within 30 days of account closing. I believe mom was going to try and come in to open another account. I do believe there is another daughter.

I do not believe mom knew or had anything to do with this. Like I said above, this is the second time the daughter has deposited fraudulent checks/been taken in by a scam. It's our fault for not closing her out the first time.

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#2269221 - 04/18/22 12:56 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
TaraSue Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 60
So very glad you were able to reach mom and go over options with her.

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#2269229 - 04/18/22 02:08 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account burkemi
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted by burkemi
I disagree with #4, by my understanding of the issue. Mom has nothing to do with daughter's fraud, so why is mom being held responsible - even indirectly - for the $5,000 loss caused by daughter?
regardless whom is being held responsible, my point is the bank is out $5k loss in this joint account. if you allow mom to reopen a new account, how long to generate fees to recover the $5k loss from her last joint acct? if the joint account holders were both in their 30s, would you feel differently?
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#2269233 - 04/18/22 02:34 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
rlcarey Offline
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Galveston, TX
If mom had plenty of resources, I would not hesitate to have offset the $5,000. If she is living on social security, I would probably be cognizant of how this would look on the front page of the local newspaper.
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#2269237 - 04/18/22 02:51 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
Bankwoman1 Offline
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Midwest
Also - the loss was not from the joint account with mom. The loss came from a single ownership account in the daughters name only. As far as we know, mom had nothing to do with it. We simply did not want to leave an account open with the daughter as a joint owner. Yes, we could offset this joint account, however, there isn't a lot of money in the account and the only funds deposited are mom's disability funds.

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#2269238 - 04/18/22 02:51 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account HappyGilmore
burkemi Offline
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Originally Posted by HappyGilmore
if the joint account holders were both in their 30s, would you feel differently?

Not even a little. That's not to say I wouldn't remove daughter from the account, (more accurately, close the account and re-open if mom chooses). The bank is out $5k because of a rotten apple, and mom had no knowledge of it.
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#2269240 - 04/18/22 02:55 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account HappyGilmore
InFairness, CRCM Offline
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USA
Originally Posted by HappyGilmore
regardless whom is being held responsible, my point is the bank is out $5k loss in this joint account. if you allow mom to reopen a new account, how long to generate fees to recover the $5k loss from her last joint acct? if the joint account holders were both in their 30s, would you feel differently?

Age and resources both play a part. Given mom's age, I might be concerned about elder financial exploitation. Also, as Randy noted, if mom is on fixed income, the reputational risk increases.
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#2269267 - 04/18/22 04:23 PM Re: Notice of Closing an Account Bankwoman1
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted by Bankwoman1
Also - the loss was not from the joint account with mom. The loss came from a single ownership account in the daughters name only. As far as we know, mom had nothing to do with it. We simply did not want to leave an account open with the daughter as a joint owner. Yes, we could offset this joint account, however, there isn't a lot of money in the account and the only funds deposited are mom's disability funds.
oh, in this case my answer changes, i thought this was done via the joint account. if a separate account, yes, i would allow mom to maintain but this scofflaw child would not be
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