We have a customer that took more than $10,000 cash out of her safe deposit box and purchased a cashier's check with her son as the remitter. She said she was paying off debt for her son. Aside from why she is keeping cash in her safe deposit box, how is the CTR filled out? Would it be just a 2a on her, or would it be 2b on her and 2c on her son?

Thank you.

Was the son with your customer and/or is the son on the account? If not, I would not include the son.

Her son is not on the Safe Deposit Box.

don't get bogged on this detail that has no bearing on anything

and if son was not present and not on the account, i would not include him

Thank you

First, there was not an account involved, so whether the son was "on the account" is irrelevant.

I'm going to argue for including the son as a person on whose behalf she completed the cashier's check purchase. She is the purchaser, without a doubt, but she made the purchase on her son's behalf (to pay off one of his obligations). So I would include a part 1 for Mom with 2b checked, and a part 1 for Son, with 2c checked.

Well for the CTR I agree. But detail is important when it comes to the possible SAR. Like where did this money come from - besides out of a safe deposit box. And how would the bank even know that?

I would also agree with John on this one, if the son is shown as the remitter of the cashier's check, regardless of where they said the cash came from. Typically, banks will not allow this.

I won't argue the logic of adding the son to the CTR as I find an argument for either side (also I am not equipped to tackle the issue with giants!). I would like to add though, true there was no mention of an account, there was no mention of an account not being used. It really comes down to how your institution works. At some (those I worked with in the past), you would not be able to purchase a cashier's check without having an account. My current and recent employer this would not be the case. I got caught up in my mind and stuck to what I am used to.

If a bank check is involved you can list that account number, if it is the only one involved, but was not a sticking point. You wouldn't use an account number of said customer if account number was not involved. We do not issue monetary instruments to non-customers, however they can bring in cash to pay for one. If THEY mention the Safe Deposit Box, you can list it. She is conducting a transaction on her behalf to purchase a monetary instrument. Who the check was made payable is irrelevant.

This did come up in an audit.

"however they can bring in cash to pay for one." for clarification....a customer can bring in cash....

The OP said: "purchased a cashier's check with her son as the remitter"

Amy S said: "She is conducting a transaction on her behalf to purchase a monetary instrument."

How can that statement be justified?

I'm looking at who is giving/receiving the actual cash. The bank is receiving the cash. She purchased the check, therefore the "cash in" was for her benefit to purchase a monetary instrument, regardless of who/what she is giving the check to.

Also, who says he is going to pay off a debt? He could endorse it over to his friend Bob for all we know. Does Bob have to be included then when we find that out?

I did double check myself in the last couple of years audits for CTRs of this instance looked, the "payee" was not listed and there was no mentioning of it.

Here's an ancient piece of guidance that makes it clear that a bank should inquire on whose behalf a transaction is being conducted rather than just reporting on whoever is holding the cash:

https://www.fincen.gov/resources/st...s/formerly-known-89-5-how-does-financial

Where the cash came from and the payee of the cashier's check is irrelevant.

The mother presented the cash and told the bank that it was for a cashier's check on which she wanted her son listed as the remitter of the cashier's check.

If the son is the remitter of the cashier's check, then the remitter (son) would be credited with whatever payment this cashier's check would represent once it is delivered. Therefor, she purchased this cashier's check on behalf of her son.

If would be treated no different than if the mother deposit the cash into the son's account.