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#2265451 - 01/28/22 08:32 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Thank you for sharing this Compliance NABW.
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#2265459 - 01/28/22 09:46 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,227
Galveston, TX
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Thanks for following back up.
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#2265463 - 01/28/22 10:39 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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On the Net
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Unfortunately I can almost hear the discussion in the CFPB halls, "hey guys, on the next FAQs, how about this interpretation of initiating a transfer and fraud...". It'll be up there with "an ACH agreement is not an agreement but a debit card common bond is."
Thanks for the follow-up. This thread was an interesting read.
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AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
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#2265472 - 01/29/22 02:37 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
Andy_Z
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#2266208 - 02/11/22 05:52 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 60
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Here's a take on this that I haven't seen yet: Customer gets a call saying his wife's info has been compromised on Amazon. They tell him to send $2,500 through CashApp (to "his wife" with the information they give him) Our transaction limit is $1,000 so the transaction failed. Customer called, we tell him the limit is 1K, but as we are talking we realize it is a scam. We tell the customer this is a scam, do NOT send these people anything. He gets frustrated with the banker, is transferred to the manager who tells him the same thing. Manager goes in to shut down his card since he is still insistent this isn't fraud and, as she looks at the screen (before closing the card) a $1,000 transaction comes through. Does Reg E apply?
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#2266209 - 02/11/22 05:54 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,694
Illinois
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It depends. Did the customer initiate the transfer or did the customer get tricked into giving their access device to the fraudsters and the fraudsters initiate the transfer?
Reg E applies to the latter, but not to the former.
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#2266210 - 02/11/22 05:55 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Galveston, TX
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Does it apply how? Did they authorize a transaction for $1,000. If they did, it is an authorized transaction.
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#2266211 - 02/11/22 05:58 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 60
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Customer initiated the transfer. My bigger question (that may be irrelevant) is that we TOLD him it was fraud and he initiated anyway. If, since he initiated, Reg E doesn't apply anyway, then the fact that we TOLD him it was fraud and he kept going really doesn't matter. Thanks for helping me walk through this.
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#2266245 - 02/11/22 09:40 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,700
The Country
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If we had a customer who didn't listen to us regarding the transaction, sent the money anyways and then submitted a claim they would soon be an ex-customer.
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#2266250 - 02/11/22 10:04 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,748
On the Net
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From the description the scammer didn't get the info and initiate the transfer. The customer initiated the transfer and was informed it was a scam. They chose to send the funds. The transfer was executed as requested by the consumer.
It is different if they coerced the consumer for access info or billed more than was authorized. That was not the case. I'd deny it and not reissue. My fear is once they know the rules, they will be more likely to abuse them.
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AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
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#2269565 - 04/22/22 08:27 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,668
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Interesting FDIC Supervisory Highlights on some of what we discussed here. They are taking a broad view of scam fraud as it relates to obtaining credentials/access devices. They still have not "jumped" yet to the debit card itself, but another thing to take note of is that with P2P transactions, they seem to be putting the onus on the depository institution and the app provider, i.e. Zelle, CashApp, etc. They say Error Resolution under Reg. E is the responsibility of both. Maybe they are only talking about the limited requirements of 1005.14(c), but they don't really seem to be restricting it to that. https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/ex...s/documents/ccs-highlights-march2022.pdf
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#2269600 - 04/25/22 07:39 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,237
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Here's their reason for not restricting it to 1005.14(c): "When an MPP 5 | Consumer Compliance Supervisory Highlights entered into an agreement with a consumer, that agreement extended to the financial institution holding the consumer’s account."
Really?
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#2269714 - 04/27/22 06:13 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,668
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Yeah, it doesn't seem to be in line with the Regulation. My understanding is it depends on how the transaction works, but, if the debit card is not what is accessed with the P2P, then the 1005.14(c) "out" usually applies.
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#2281258 - 02/17/23 04:12 PM
Re: Authorized or Not?
1995Banker
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,694
Illinois
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There are no Reg E protections for when the customer initiates the transfer and is charged the correct amount. You attempt to assist the cardholder as your Visa/MC contract requires, but that is where your responsibilities end.
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