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#22901 - 07/08/02 07:20 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Reg. E is not like Reg. Z. The purpose here isn't achieving a satisfaction level with the goods and services purchased. While you have no need to question a stop payment on a check, that isn't always the answer either. Or the correct one anyway.
If the transaction was authorized, Reg. E isn't an issue. The customer needs to take it up with the merchant.
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AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
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#22903 - 07/08/02 07:29 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
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For whatever it's worth, we have in bold in our Reg. E. disclosures, among other things: - You can not place stop payments on individual transactions completed using your XXXX MoneyCard.
- If you give someone else permission to use your Card one or more times, all future use of your Card by that person will be considered authorized by you until you contact XXXX to revoke that authorization.
- Dissatisfaction with the quality or quantity of goods or services that you have paid for electronically does not necessarily qualify a transaction for reimbursement. You should treat these purchases as if you are spending cash.
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John S. Burnett BankersOnline.com Fighting for Compliance since 1976 Bankers' Threads User #8
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#22904 - 07/08/02 10:55 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Platinum Poster
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 975
first lily pad on the right
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There is a Visa rule that allows for quality of merchanise disputes. Reason Code 53, Not as Described. It says "goods or services received were (i) not the same as described on the transaction receipt or other documentation presented to the cardholder at the time of the purchase or (ii) for a mail/phone order transaction, not the same as the merchant's verbal description AND the cardholder attempted to return the merchandise to the merchant, attempted to cancel the services, or attempted to resolve th eservices dispute with the merchant. There is also another dispute code 56, for defective merchandise.
I would suggest talking with whoever handles your Visa Check Card disputes because it sounds like you may be able to do something.
Leslie C.
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#22905 - 07/09/02 12:50 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
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The chargeback codes permitted by Visa are certainly available for debit card transactions. Essentially, Visa is looking at the transaction as a card transaction, and doesn't really care whether it's debit or credit.
The key difference here, as mentioned earlier in the string, is that Regulation Z often requires the issuing bank to enter the dispute between the merchant and the cardholder (see § 226.12(c)). There is no comparable requirement in Regulation E with regard to debit card transactions.
In my experience, this key difference is often a matter of considerable misunderstanding, both among bank personnel themselves, and between banks and their debit card customers.
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John S. Burnett BankersOnline.com Fighting for Compliance since 1976 Bankers' Threads User #8
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#22906 - 07/31/02 02:57 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E and Unauthorized Transacations
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Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 98
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I have a question on a related matter. I'm being told that VISA Check Card rules require the customer to try to resolve any disputed and any unauthorized transactions on their own before the bank and it's debit card servicer can/will start their investigation. I've just learned that unless the card is lost or stolen, even for unauthorized debits, the customer is to call the merchant -- even if they've never heard of the company -- to try to resolve the issue. If the customer isn't successful in working directly with the merchant, then they should call or write the bank to give notice of the error. I don't understand how VISA can establish "rules" that are not in agreement with Reg E error resolution procedures. I'm now having to answer a letter from our regulator about our procedures and am stumped. I'm not really sure if I'm asking a question or simply venting my frustration. At any rate, thanks in advance.
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#22907 - 07/31/02 03:06 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E and Unauthorized Transacations
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Their rules can be more customer friendly, but not less. You can't make the customer do more under the VISA rules than Reg. E would require.
It sounds as though your procedure is being questioned. Verify the source of the procedure and find the VISA rules requiring this to see what excatly is said, to which transactions this applies, etc.
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AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
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#22908 - 07/31/02 08:12 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E and Unauthorized Transacations
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 100
Chaska, MN
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Kruckle - One of our FI's was written up (BIG TIME) for a Reg E violation because they folowed VISA rules, and instructed the customer to try to work it out with the merchant prior to doing a chargeback request. I contacted VISA on behalf of our FI, and was told that VISA assumes that the customer has already tried to resolve the situation with the merchant prior to contacting the bank. In the real world, we all know that this is not the case, but that's what VISA says. The second your customer comes into your bank and asserts an error, the Reg E clock starts ticking, and your required to determine if an error occurred...Aren't consumer protection regulations fun?!?
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The comments above are my own thoughts an opinions, not those of my employer.
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#22910 - 11/23/04 06:43 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Cardholders have chargeback rights available to them. As the issuer you are obligated to file chargebacks on behalf of your cardholders provided the customer made an attempt to resolve the issue with the merchant first. Check out Chargeback Reason Code 53-"Not as Described or Defective Merchandise."
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#22911 - 11/23/04 07:29 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Visa issuers as members should be very familiar with the entire program and product. First read Visa's U.S.A. Operating Regulation Books, Vol. I - General Rules, Vol II. -Dispute Resolution Rules as well as the Visa By-Laws. When complete there are 4 International Manuals to read.
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#22912 - 10/12/05 09:43 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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After reading the posts above, I'm a little confused on this issue. I know of a bank that had in their procedure to have the customer contact the merchant first before starting the error resolution process with the bank. They got a violation cited for it. Today, I get a fax from our VISA debit card servicer on a dispute we sent in saying "there is no mention of whether or not your customer attempted to resolve the dispute with the merchant and the results of that attempt." How can this servicer request this information that is evidently not in line with Reg E? Or can they under Visa rules? What are WE supposed to do?
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#22913 - 10/12/05 09:56 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,237
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Maybe the examiner was wrong. (That never happens, right? ) Look at John's post above. If the merchant dispute relates to the goods or services provided, rather than the EFT transaction itself (i.e. wrong amount, unauthorized, duplicate, etc.), then it's not a Reg E issue.
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#22914 - 10/12/05 10:01 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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My issue started with the Kruckle post above. Nothing to do with goods or services provided. Customer said they paid by check and told company to not auto charge their card, but company automatically charged their VISA debit card anyway.
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#22915 - 10/12/05 11:49 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,227
Galveston, TX
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I bet you $100 they didn't charge their debt card - they converted the check.
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#22916 - 10/13/05 02:57 AM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,762
Central City, NE
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Quote:
I know of a bank that had in their procedure to have the customer contact the merchant first before starting the error resolution process with the bank. They got a violation cited for it.
Read §205.11(b). The bank must begin it's investigation upon receiving a notice. You can't make them contact the merchant. You can ask the customer if they have done this, but you can't require it. It's your problem.
Quote:
Today, I get a fax from our VISA debit card servicer on a dispute we sent in saying "there is no mention of whether or not your customer attempted to resolve the dispute with the merchant and the results of that attempt." How can this servicer request this information that is evidently not in line with Reg E?
They don't have to play by the Reg E rules as you are not a "consumer". You have to play by the rules. IOW, you can't make the customer contact the merchant, but they can refuse to reimburse you unless this happens.
Bottom line: cost of doing business. Personally, I think this stinks (that they put rules on you that you can't enforce), but some card service providers are doing just what you describe.
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#22917 - 10/17/05 05:50 AM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Visa rules separate from Reg. E may require a merchant dispute. But this effects Visa rules only and chargeback rules. The lowest common denominator of Reg. E, however, doesn't allow for this. You can ask and explain that they may get refunded faster this way. But that your investigation has begun and that they should let you know what the merchant says so that you are not also requesting a refund the customer already got.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
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#22919 - 10/18/05 01:01 AM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
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Regulation E rules apply to both scenarios. The Visa rules are added on top of Regulation E for a signature-based purchase transaction.
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John S. Burnett BankersOnline.com Fighting for Compliance since 1976 Bankers' Threads User #8
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#22920 - 09/01/06 02:18 PM
Re: VISA Check Card vs. Reg. E
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Gold Star
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 279
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The way I read the above is that Reg E offers no help to customers regarding the receipt of defective merchandise, but VISA rules allow chargebacks in this scenario? I hope this isn't a stupid question, but but how is this accomplished? I've always told our bookkeepers in this scenario that it's between the customer and the merchant...but now I'm second guessing myself.
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