Thread Options 
|
#238257 - 08/30/04 12:02 PM
Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 933
New York State
|
I understand that Reg V allows us to place the notice (B1 or B2) on statements, billing statement, etc as long as it is clear and conspicuous. We have been toying with the idea of placing it just above the signature line on our consumer loan application, in bold 12 point font. One of our credit bureau reps is saying that we cannot do that. It must be given after the loan is consummated. I am always trying to avoid additional pieces of paper when possible. Any comments on this would be appreciated.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238258 - 08/30/04 01:17 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,762
Central City, NE
|
Quote:
It must be given after the loan is consummated.
This is not true. The FACT Act says that it cannot be given with the TIL Disclosures. It could be given an application.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238259 - 08/30/04 01:25 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Diamond Poster
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,191
Springfield
|
I believe the Act requires that the notice be in writing - it doesn't say whether it has to be in a form the applicant can keep.
David, would you interpret the Act to mean a notice that is kept? If so, incorporating language into the application (which is generally not kept) may not be the best approach...
_________________________
Opinions are Bartman's, not those of my employer. "A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man."
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238260 - 08/30/04 01:33 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,532
Bloomington, IN
|
We have simply incorporated the notice into our system generated past due notices and our PC generated collection letters.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238262 - 08/30/04 03:00 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
We have simply incorporated the notice into our system generated past due notices and our PC generated collection letters.
This is how we are handling it as well. We have also incorporated it into our overdraft notices and possibly a few other deposit-related notices for instances where info will be reported to a chex systems type bureau.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238263 - 08/30/04 03:01 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
|
OOps..that anony was me!
_________________________
My opinion only. Not legal advice.
Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238264 - 08/30/04 05:35 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
David...what other notices are you recommending be given on a separate piece of paper?
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238267 - 08/30/04 06:23 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,762
Central City, NE
|
Quote:
David...what other notices are you recommending be given on a separate piece of paper?
1. The pricing notice.
2. The notice of negative info.
3. Disclosure of credit scores (mortgage loans).
Possibly, the Affiliate sharing notice.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238268 - 08/30/04 06:31 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
We are recommending that this notice, as well as others, be given - on a separate piece of paper - at the time of application.
David, I'm curious as to the rationale for this recommendation. Why would you want to provide a notice to people who don't need one? Applicants who don't end up getting a loan, for example, do not need the notice. Ditto for those loan customers who always pay on time. We are including the notice on the first delinquency letter that goes out 10 days after a payment is due. Am I missing something with the "at the time of application" method?
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238269 - 08/30/04 06:34 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Gold Star
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 317
USA
|
That last anonymous was me, forgot to log in.
_________________________
CRCM, CAFP, DAD
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238271 - 08/30/04 07:02 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Gold Star
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 317
USA
|
I think one "done" would get your message across, David.
We don't have to worry about whether we provided the notice, it is included on our late payment notice which is system generated automatically.
From the wording of your post that I quoted previously, I took you to mean a separate paper just for that notice.
_________________________
CRCM, CAFP, DAD
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238273 - 08/30/04 07:09 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,762
Central City, NE
|
Quote:
I think one "done" would get your message across, David.
The reason I emphasized "done" is that this is the beauty of this approach. All necessary FACT Act disclosures on one piece of paper stapled to the applicable application or with the deposit disclosures.
Quote:
We don't have to worry about whether we provided the notice, it is included on our late payment notice which is system generated automatically.
But that is just one of the necessary disclosures. What about providing all of the rest?
I'm not saying this is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I'm saying this is the approach that we are recommending. I think it makes it easier to remember, less burdensome to disseminate and much easier to audit.
Anyone have any pros/cons to this approach?
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238274 - 08/30/04 07:42 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Diamond Poster
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,191
Springfield
|
So, I have a loan that's been on your books for 18 months, paid as agreed. You implement the 'at-application' notice method. The regulation goes into effect December 1 (maybe). I have my first 1x30 next March.
Do I ever get a 217 notice?? How do you propose to handle existing customers under this scenario?
I avoided the question by notifying via past-due notices. Yes, it's multiple notices for chronically late borrowers, but I don't have to add a new piece of paper.
(Food for thought...)
_________________________
Opinions are Bartman's, not those of my employer. "A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man."
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238275 - 08/30/04 08:23 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,762
Central City, NE
|
Quote:
How do you propose to handle existing customers under this scenario?
Good point. I still see a need for the negative info. notice on past due notices.
I still like the idea of one notice for new customers and the other disclosures.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238276 - 08/31/04 04:39 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,752
On the Net
|
I think you need to evaluate the programming costs for incorporation into payment books and such, and the costs of adding this to an annual mailing you do to all. That blanket mailing puts existing customers on notice and from there you deliver it to all "new customers".
The wrinkle I see in the future is if the past due notice becomes "event driven" and is triggered. That would be speculation in this case. It may not be in the pricing notice.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238277 - 08/31/04 06:09 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Does anyone see an issue with placing the notice within the bank's privacy policy and developing an interim procedure until the next annual mailing?
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238278 - 08/31/04 08:34 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 595
OZ
|
IMO, commercial accounts could be an issue if you report any overdrafts or loan defaults on individual commercial customers since these customers generally will not receive a privacy notice. Also, IMO, the privacy law permits you to send a single notice to joint account holders (including guarantors). This law does not say specifically that one notice may be sent to all customers. Finally, how do you provide your credit card customers with the privacy notice? Ours appears on the initial disclosure - which is the one place this notice cannot appear.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238279 - 09/01/04 04:07 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
New Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 24
Cowtown
|
It can't appear in the intial TILA disclosures, and we are doing a seperate statement notice, but does anyone see any harm in ALSO including it in the TILA disclosures just for information?
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238280 - 09/01/04 05:27 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Diamond Poster
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,191
Springfield
|
Tallie - I'd hesitate to include it with the TIL disclosure, because the FACT Act specifically said it can't be there. I understand you're saying it would be given on a statement notice, too; but I think an examiner might take issue with the TIL piece.
_________________________
Opinions are Bartman's, not those of my employer. "A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man."
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#238281 - 09/14/04 02:33 PM
Re: Section 217 Notice - Where?
|
Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 933
New York State
|
David, is it your opinion that one notice per account is sufficient? Or does each signer on an account need to receive his/her own notice (in the case where we are doing a mailing to existing customers)?
Also, the question has been raised about providing the notice to guarantors on commercial accounts. In my opinion, they are acting in a commercial/business capacity and would not be covered. Do you concur?
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous Thread
Index