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#241352 - 09/03/04 06:31 PM Social Security Number
Runin' Reb Offline
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Runin' Reb
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 102
West Coast
Ok everyone, I've got one of those "I don't need to provide a SS number to open an account" people.

The only problem is, the account was opened without his SSN because he's was a business customer prior to CIP implementation. The Compliance Department (ie. Me) found out about it and told the branch we needed it.

I already found where it states in our banks policy that it is a requirement, but can anyone direct me to the regulation itself that says we must have an identifying number such as a SSN.????

The branch manager already sent a certified letter stating that we needed it, and he sent back a certified letter quoting 26 U.S.C 7701(a) (30) (A).

Please help.....John???
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#241353 - 09/03/04 06:43 PM Re: Social Security Number
Ted Dreyer Offline
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Ted Dreyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,245
12 CFR 103.121 (b)(2)(i) says:
(i) Customer information required. (A) In general. The CIP must contain procedures for opening an account that specify the identifying information that will be obtained from each customer. Except as permitted by paragraphs (b)(2)(i)(B) and (C) of this section, the bank must obtain, at a minimum, the following information from the customer prior to opening an account:
(1) Name;
(2) Date of birth, for an individual;
(3) Address, which shall be:
(i) For an individual, a residential or business street address;
(ii) For an individual who does not have a residential or business street address, an Army Post Office (APO) or Fleet Post Office (FPO) box number, or the residential or business street address of next of kin or of another contact individual; or
(iii) For a person other than an individual (such as a corporation, partnership, or trust), a principal place of business, local office, or other physical location; and
(4) Identification number, which shall be:
(i) For a U.S. person, a taxpayer identification number

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#241354 - 09/03/04 06:44 PM Re: Social Security Number
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
here is a link to a banker's tool titled TIN Refusal Rebuttal
http://www.bankersonline.com/tools/operational/constructivenotice.pdf

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#241355 - 09/03/04 07:16 PM Re: Social Security Number
Runin' Reb Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 102
West Coast
Thanks Ted!!! Knew I could count on you....thanks to all.!!!!
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#241356 - 09/08/04 06:02 PM Re: Social Security Number
strat shooter Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11
South Dakota
We have a customer wanting to open an account for newly formed LLC. This is a 1 person LLC and the attorney (God Love 'em) is telling her that she does not need a TIN for the LLC. How can we comply with the Patriot Act if the LLC does not have its own TIN?

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#241357 - 09/08/04 07:27 PM Re: Social Security Number
rlcarey Online
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Galveston, TX
She is gettting bad advice. If she doesn't keep the LLC separate, she runs the risks of the courts determining that she is really acting as an individual and it could negate all the liability protections.
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#241358 - 09/08/04 07:30 PM Re: Social Security Number
GreatBlue Offline
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GreatBlue
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,362
Colorado
It was my understanding that the IRS permitted a single person LLC to use the person's SSN.

(Which has nothing to do with your point about potential liability.)
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#241359 - 09/08/04 07:42 PM Re: Social Security Number
strat shooter Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11
South Dakota
Even if the IRS allows the use of the SSB does that satisfy the Patriot Act requirements for the customer's TIN? The customer is the LLC.

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#241360 - 09/08/04 07:44 PM Re: Social Security Number
rlcarey Online
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Galveston, TX
It is permitted, but not wise
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#241361 - 09/08/04 07:57 PM Re: Social Security Number
GreatBlue Offline
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GreatBlue
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,362
Colorado
Quote:

Even if the IRS allows the use of the SSB does that satisfy the Patriot Act requirements for the customer's TIN? The customer is the LLC.



I think as far as the IRS is concerned, the individual's SSN is the LLC's TIN. And if the IRS says that's the TIN, that's the TIN for CIP as well.
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#241362 - 09/09/04 11:11 AM Re: Social Security Number
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Next to Harvey
From the instructions on the W-9:

For an LLC that is disregarded as an entity, you must show the owner’s name on the first name line. On the second name line, you may enter the LLC’s name. Use the owner’s TIN.

A single member LLC can be transparent or disregarded for income tax purposes and use the owner's SSN, but still be a separate legal entity from its owner. As rlcarey notes, in order to preserve the legal protections it affords the owner, the one person LLC must be treated for all purposes other than income taxes as a separate legal entity.

The LLC is the customer for CIP purposes and the regulations defer to the internal revenue code as to what is the correct TIN. The code says the owner's SSN is fine.
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#241363 - 09/09/04 03:53 PM Re: Social Security Number
strat shooter Offline
New Poster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11
South Dakota
Thanks to everyone for your responses. You have been a great help.

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