Thread Options 
|
#253003 - 10/06/04 12:48 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
100 Club
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 193
Wisconsin
|
I agree with your sentiments. I think Cheney's comments summed it up when he stated that he doesn't have future aspirations to run in 2008 and that Edwards was just trying to get his foot in the door more or less. I was very surprised at how many times Edwards got flustered when the big hoopla was that he is a fancy trial lawyer. I'll vote for the experience!
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253004 - 10/06/04 01:20 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
|
Quote:
I'll vote for the experience!
Well, the fact is people don't really vote for the VP, ever. What they DO, however, evaluate, is the Presidential candidate's judgment in choosing their running mate.
I think it's been pretty clear this whole campaign that President Bush has selected a running mate that we would feel pretty confident has the ability to step in and be the President, God forbid it should be necessary.
Can you say the same thing about John Kerry's selection? I have my doubts.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253006 - 10/06/04 01:33 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
The emerging distinction between the two parties is that the Democrats are viewing the Al Qaeda attack of September 11, 2001, and masterminded by Osama Bin Laden, as a separate terrorism issue from the weapons development and noncompliance of Saddam Hussein, in which Hussein defied both U.N. and U.S. directives. The Republicans, in contrast, are viewing terrorism in its totality and are noting the links, however subtle the links are, between terrorist-sponsoring organizations who harbor and support each other. Cheney cited during the debate the fact that the Al Qaeda terrorists were permitted by Saddam Hussein to construct training camps in Iraq, but Edwards didn't feel this truly linked Saddam Hussein to Al Qaeda.
It comes down to who you feel will truly have their heart in effectively and unflinchingly prosecuting terrorism in a consistent, unwavoring manner -- the Democrats or the Republicans.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253007 - 10/06/04 01:36 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
It comes down to who you feel will truly have their heart in effectively and unflinchingly prosecuting terrorism in a consistent, unwavoring manner -- the Democrats or the Republicans.
i think its the democrats because John Edwards said they want to speed up the war and the reconstruction because they think its going to slow. John Edwards wants to be tougher so they would be the ones with there 'heart' in it.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253008 - 10/06/04 01:39 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Power Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
|
Quote:
Quote:
It comes down to who you feel will truly have their heart in effectively and unflinchingly prosecuting terrorism in a consistent, unwavoring manner -- the Democrats or the Republicans.
i think its the democrats because John Edwards said they want to speed up the war and the reconstruction because they think its going to slow. John Edwards wants to be tougher so they would be the ones with there 'heart' in it.
This is only because Edwards is trying to look tough after his voting record shows the opposite.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253009 - 10/06/04 01:41 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,564
Clintonville, WI, USA
|
I guess it is just the accountant in me, but the Kerry/Edwards plans don't add up. How can we cut all those taxes, cut health insurance costs by $1,000 per person/household, and still do all those things they "plan" to do? (Edwards used "plan" alot in his answers. "We have a plan"...) Create new jobs, get better teachers, a better health coverage...I just don't see how it can be done.
Also, it seemed to me that Edwards wants all the other countries of the world to help us out, but he doesn't want to allow them to make any of the major decisions. Like, he wants them to share the burden of the war, financiallly and with casualties, but we should not have let the Afghanis follow up on the Osamma bin Laden hunt, etc. He also insulted the Saudis, which can make it hard to get their assistance if he's in our leadership future.
And finally, he doesn't support gay marriage, but there should be "partnership" rights? Sounded like marriage rights to me. Calling it something different doesn't make it so.
Bottom line, I think Cheney won.
_________________________
Member of the National Sarcasm Society - like we need your support!
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253010 - 10/06/04 01:42 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Power Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
|
Quote:
I guess it is just the accountant in me, but the Kerry/Edwards plans don't add up. How can we cut all those taxes, cut health insurance costs by $1,000 per person/household, and still do all those things they "plan" to do? (Edwards used "plan" alot in his answers. "We have a plan"...) Create new jobs, get better teachers, a better health coverage...I just don't see how it can be done.
This is what I have been seeing all year, and it sickens me that people who support Kerry/Edwards don't remember their Sesame Street education.... One of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong...
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253011 - 10/06/04 01:49 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Power Poster
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,507
Up North
|
In my opinion, I think that Dick Cheney had John Edwards on the run for most of the debate. Edwards appeared defensive and childish at times. My favorite part of the whole debate was when Dick Cheney took Edwards to task over the coalition casualties in Iraq. Also, I believe that Edwards contradicted himself several times. I can't give specifics but I remember thinking a few times, "But you just said...".
_________________________
Sometimes you have to burn a few bridges to keep the crazies from following you.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253012 - 10/06/04 01:51 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 46
|
Quote:
"But you just said...".
I don't believe we should outsource...............we will get prescription drugs from Canada??????? Hmmmm....
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253014 - 10/06/04 02:53 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I think it was a draw. And, the polls seem to indicate the same.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253015 - 10/06/04 03:04 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Power Poster
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,626
State of confusion
|
Cheney really led on this one I think. I also think they got the ball rolling for the 2 elect hopefuls for the 8th?? I think that is when they meet for the next debate. (I may be biased though as a Bush supporter.  )
_________________________
Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more that standing in your garage makes you a car.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253016 - 10/06/04 03:42 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Power Poster
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,455
The Pennant Race
|
One way or another, the Vice President did much better than his boss. The President needs to perform much better than he did last week.
I know that many of you felt that the President won on content. But the polls say otherwise. And unless he performs better in St. Louis, Kerry can still win.
_________________________
The opinions expressed here are personal and do not represent opinions of my employer.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253017 - 10/06/04 03:55 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Platinum Poster
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 833
Michigan
|
My favorite part was when Cheeney answered the question about the administration's failure to "bring the country together." He didn't try to spin it, he said it hasn't happened and that's a problem. He said the Republicans have been just as bad at being a majority as the Democrats have at being a minority. Both sides need to learn how to behave in their current roles.
Cheeney won on style, content and his grasp of reality. Edwards has a better smile.
_________________________
If you approach life with pure logic you can avoid almost all of the fun.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253018 - 10/06/04 04:01 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253020 - 10/06/04 04:49 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
|
Anybody that says Edwards won last night is fooling themselves, as was anyone who said Bush won last week.
As to the effect, you may be right, but, as opposed to last week's debate, I think this could somewhat change the dynamic. When the VP candidate can't give a reasonable answer as to why he's qualified (seriously, off the top of your head, can you recall his justification?), it may cause people to question the judgment of the person who chose them.
Like the decision to vote against funding for the troops (a vote that candidate Kerry had said weeks before would be irresponsible) was made for political, not principled reasons, Mr. Kerry's decision to pick Mr. Edwards as his running mate was a political calculation, not a choice based on who would make the best President if he was, God forbid, incapacitated. People understand that.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253022 - 10/06/04 05:36 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
What matters is what the Undecideds think - and current Yahoo news reports indicate that more of them thought Edwards won.
Polls are only as good as how the questions are framed and the independence of the respondents.
If a question were phrased as “Do you believe that the President can do a better job?”, the answer in just about all cases would be yes. (Anyone can do a better job given additional time, resources, money, information, etc.). The reporting could be said that “nearly 100% of the people say the President could be doing a better job”.
Another fallacy can occur where/how the polls are conducted. A question to who won the Vice Presidential debate, asked of people entering the Democratic National Headquarters would be totally opposite from a phone call-in poll to the Rush Limbaugh show.
Based on the admitted biases of the media, one or both of the above could have occurred.
I vote that Chaney won considering that Edwards dodged almost one third of the questions and by training an accomplished trial lawyer and should have done better. For Edwards – he had the better hair.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253023 - 10/06/04 05:57 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Power Poster
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,934
here and there
|
First I would like to say that both of them were acting like children. Instead of attacking the issues they were attacking each other. I do think that Dick did win however. John didn't explain himself enough and was just trying to put Dick down. On that note, I don't think that John was so bad to get me to change my vote from Kerry.
_________________________
I am the ringmaster of my domain!
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253024 - 10/06/04 06:32 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Gold Star
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 274
New England
|
Quote:
What matters is what the Undecideds think - and current Yahoo news reports indicate that more of them thought Edwards won.
This is a specious finding and it cannot be believed. The chance that a Yahoo call center representative is going to reach someone who says "I'm undecided" and then says "Edwards won" is not credible. To suggest that an adult with at least moderate intelligence who would opt to watch a vice presidential debate instead of baseball or other choices and still be an "undecided" voter is simply not credible. Nobody believes this type of poll; it is marketing spin. They are hoping to promote the notion that Edwards won. Polls taken by MSNBC and Viacom say that Cheney won. But the overriding issue is that for you to even think that it's credible and worth mentioning means you are a Kerry/Edwards supporter. There are no "undecideds" at this late juncture; only marketing spins that try to convince you of that. Anyone without a passion or conviction to allow themselves to be identified as an "undecided" 3-4 weeks before an election should just stay home and not vote, because they obviously haven't figured it out and they probably never will.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253025 - 10/06/04 06:35 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Platinum Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 986
Massachusetts
|
I feel Cheney had better speaking skills than Edwards. He stayed more focused. If he had to take over from Bush I would feel confident that he can speak well. There is nothing coming out of these debates except mud slinging. They need to address the issues by not repeating what the other one said.
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
#253026 - 10/06/04 06:41 PM
Re: Round 2: Who won -- Cheney or Edwards?
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
First I would like to say that both of them were acting like children. Instead of attacking the issues they were attacking each other. I do think that Dick did win however. John didn't explain himself enough and was just trying to put Dick down. On that note, I don't think that John was so bad to get me to change my vote from Kerry.
I feel that it was either a draw or leaning toward Cheney. He was certainly well informed and an articulate speaker. And did a much better job of selling the "why" of his administration's position on things.
Both made errors and stated things not quite true.
1. Edwards says the bill for Iraq is $200 billion.
False. Currently it is $120 billion. The $200 billion is the September 2005 figure and a portion of that (I don't remember the $ amount but it wasn't large) is earmarked for Afghanistan.
2. Cheney said the first time he met Edwards was last night.
False. Immediately after the debate Elizabeth Edwards reminded Dick Cheney that he met her husband a while back at a prayer breakfast. Also, the Tuesday meetings Cheney referred to are held with only the Republican members of the Senate. The Democrats are not included. Makes it a little tougher to meet someone if they are not there.
3. Edwards said that 90% of the coalition casualties are American.
True.
4. Cheney said that 50% of the total casualties are American.
Also True.
Edwards was trying to make the point that America is taking 90% of the casualties of all countries other than Iraq that are involved in this was...that we need additional allies involved.
Cheney was a bit disingenuous in that he portrayed Edwards' 90% figure as disrespecting the Iraqi contribution in lives to the effort. I believe he knew exactly the point that Edwards was trying to make, and this was his defense (after all, it was a debate) because he knew that the 90% COALITION casualty figure Edwards quoted was correct.
5. I don't remember the exact words, but Edwards said Cheney said (he said, he said) that Iraq was directy linked to 9/11 (or something substantially similar). Cheney flatly denied that he ever said that.
False. Immediately after the debate the stations were playing a news clip of Cheney using the exact words he had just denied ever saying.
And just for clarification, when Edwards said "is it OK for me to mention Kerry now??" it was because in the question immediately preceeding that one, Gail had asked that they not mention the presidential candidates by name in their responses. Edwards goofed twice, and he admitted it twice. So when the next question came around, he wanted to make sure that the "no name" rule still did not apply. Honestly, I am not sure what they were trying to accomplish with the "no names rule" for that one question.
So, it was much less "grand theatre" than the Presidential debate. But, in my opinion, was informative. I truly doubt last night's performance made any dent in the polls outside the margin of error. I do believe more people will be tuning in to Friday, though....
|
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous Thread
Index