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#315047 - 02/10/05 09:18 PM Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

Can an employer ask an employee for a resignation "just because"? In a situation close to me a supervisor was asked by the manager to put in his two week notice or go ahead and quit. No bad reviews, been at this bank 3 - 4 years, recently promoted to this supervisory position. And really no good reason given by the manager, they just want this employee to move on. He can go ahead and quit or "we could just build a case against you" YIKES

This has been pretty traumatic to this employee who has been pretty happy at the job, he doesn't want to quit, in fact he enjoys doing what he's doing and apparently doing it well. However, pressure is being put on this employee and he is miserable, trying to decide what to do!

Any suggestions?

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#315048 - 02/10/05 09:28 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
RR Joker Offline
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RR Joker
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,654
The Swamp
I'm no authority, but that sounds CRAZY to me. No discussion, no indication of poor performance...gee whiz!
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#315049 - 02/10/05 09:39 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

THe employee should document everything...times...date...people and mail the documentation to himself but not open it. Since it appears that they are probably going to fire this indivual anyway he should notify them in writting that he feels he is being harrased and that if they do not back off he will file an eeoc complaint. He should be sure to also mail a copy of this document to himself, again he should not open it after it is received. Then if he is fired or gets to the point where he is forced to resign and apply for unemployment and the bank denies his claim because he resigned, then he can request a hearing and open the documents at that time.

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#315050 - 02/10/05 09:41 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

This person thinks that the manager has probably got someone in mind for his position (good ole boy) and it would be easy on him (the mgr) for him to just vacate the spot! It is all very strange. I advised him to talk to the bank's HR folks, but to not even consider quitting!

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#315051 - 02/10/05 10:56 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
GuitarDude Offline
Power Poster
GuitarDude
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,924
So Cal
Another possibility is that they are trying to avoid giving the employee a severance (if any) by encouraging him to quit by his own "choice."
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#315052 - 02/10/05 11:20 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

Insane. If I were him, I document the conversation, politely refuse to resign, and then document everything that happens as they "build their case". If he's a member of a protected class, even better. There's a good case for wrongful discharge building here.

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#315053 - 02/11/05 04:45 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

If you are in an "at will" state, you can be terminated for any reason or no reason. Unless he is being harrassed because of age, religion, etc. - one of the legally protected classes - then the employer is violating no laws. Stupid and very unprofessional, and will hurt morale at your shop, but life isn't fair.

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#315054 - 02/11/05 05:37 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

THe employee should document everything...times...date...people and mail the documentation to himself but not open it. Since it appears that they are probably going to fire this indivual anyway he should notify them in writting that he feels he is being harrased and that if they do not back off he will file an eeoc complaint. He should be sure to also mail a copy of this document to himself, again he should not open it after it is received. Then if he is fired or gets to the point where he is forced to resign and apply for unemployment and the bank denies his claim because he resigned, then he can request a hearing and open the documents at that time.




What good does not opening the documents do? One of the stupidest things I have ever heard!

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#315055 - 02/11/05 05:40 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
DeeQ Offline
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DeeQ
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,764
Turnpike Exit 10
Gee, anon, that's pretty critical...

I believe it is to effectively date stamp the material to prove that it was in fact presented on a certain date.
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#315056 - 02/11/05 05:47 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Gee, anon, that's pretty critical...

I believe it is to effectively date stamp the material to prove that it was in fact presented on a certain date.




Why would mailing something help verify dates? Obvioulsy you are not a lawyer, bleep. I could mail a letter to myself today and claim I was harassed. Does that mean it actually happened? or that it happened whan i said it happened? bleep

I cant help but think howbleep the original poster must be. No one, I repeat no one, is asked to resign for no reason. You people need to wake up!

(Please do not flame.)
Last edited by Andy Z; 02/12/05 02:36 PM.
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#315057 - 02/11/05 05:50 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

There probably is more to it than the original poster knows, but you don't need to be so crude about it, Anon. You may think you are smarter than everyone else here, but trust me, there are no stupid people here.

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#315058 - 02/11/05 06:01 PM Re: Asking for a resignation *DELETED* *DELETED*
DeeQ Offline
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DeeQ
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,764
Turnpike Exit 10
Post deleted by Devil Queen
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#315059 - 02/11/05 07:04 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
HappyGilmore Offline
10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,483
Pulling people out of the ditc...
Wow, great wisdom from anon. For the record, if you mail something to yourself and do not open it, the postmark verifies that in fact that it was submitted on the date in question, and not that you fabricated the memo at a later date and just back-dated it. Instead of mailing it too yourself, you can actually seal it in an envelope and bring it to your local post office, and they will cancel it on the envelope seal (for the anons who is critical of the non-lawyers, this is a legally accepted form of identifying when a transaction was completed. In fact, the US patent office recognizes this mark for when someone is submitting a patent request).

I agree that all of the facts are not here, but it seems that anon went a ad off the deep end.
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#315060 - 02/11/05 07:36 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Bob McComas Offline
Platinum Poster
Bob McComas
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 570
Dallas, Texas
Quote:

Then if he is fired or gets to the point where he is forced to resign and apply for unemployment and the bank denies his claim because he resigned, then he can request a hearing and open the documents at that time.





In the case of an unemployment claim, a dated and sealed envelop containing the ex-employees facts would be accepted into the record. The fact the information was sealed and date stamped is not a consideration in the findings, because it would have little bearing on the facts. What will be considered are the facts (which should include dates) contained in the documents themselves, and if there were any witnesses to support the ex-employees statements.

The claims examiner is only interested in the facts and supporting testimony. So sealing and date stamping are really not required, but if it provides some mental relief to the ex-employee by all means do it.

The only time a date stamp would be useful is to prove that the documents were mailed to the unemployment commission within the time period required by the commission, which is just proof of mailing.

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#315061 - 02/11/05 07:38 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Wow, great wisdom from anon. For the record, if you mail something to yourself and do not open it, the postmark verifies that in fact that it was submitted on the date in question, and not that you fabricated the memo at a later date and just back-dated it. Instead of mailing it too yourself, you can actually seal it in an envelope and bring it to your local post office, and they will cancel it on the envelope seal (for the anons who is critical of the non-lawyers, this is a legally accepted form of identifying when a transaction was completed. In fact, the US patent office recognizes this mark for when someone is submitting a patent request).

I agree that all of the facts are not here, but it seems that anon went a ad off the deep end.




Apparantly, you dont know much either. I never argued the validity of a postmark. My point is that I could easily fabricate a story and use the postmarks to help bolster my false claim. The date on the envelope only proves that a letter was mailed on a certain date. I'll try not to use too big of words in my example below:

I have decided to claim that my employer is harassing me. I will write a letter today and say that my boss came into my office and threatened my family. After work, I mail the letter. Three days later, I fabricate that this time my boss came in and showed me gun and threatened to use it. I write about the incident in a letter and send it through the mail. It is now 1 week later and I have both letters at my house and they are both postmarked accordingly.

What does this prove? The answer for all you brilliant bankers around here is simple. Not a damn thing!

The boss can still deny all the allegations and say they never happened. Do you think a jury or arbritrator cares about the complaintants postmarked letters? I honestly want you to think about this before you reply with any snide remarks.



My point is simple, having these postmarked letters doesnt prove anything other than when they were mailed. If I was representing the supervisor in the original posters example, I would laugh out loud at the 'unopened letter' evidence. You people all need to get a life.

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#315062 - 02/11/05 07:40 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Then if he is fired or gets to the point where he is forced to resign and apply for unemployment and the bank denies his claim because he resigned, then he can request a hearing and open the documents at that time.





In the case of an unemployment claim, a dated and sealed envelop containing the ex-employees facts would be accepted into the record. The fact the information was sealed and date stamped is not a consideration in the findings, because it would have little bearing on the facts. What will be considered are the facts (which should include dates) contained in the documents themselves, and if there were any witnesses to support the ex-employees statements.

The claims examiner is only interested in the facts and supporting testimony. So sealing and date stamping are really not required, but if it provides some mental relief to the ex-employee by all means do it.

The only time a date stamp would be useful is to prove that the documents were mailed to the unemployment commission within the time period required by the commission, which is just proof of mailing.




There is a god! Thank you so much for your post!

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#315063 - 02/11/05 07:53 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
beaten blind Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 473
the Bat Cave
Tsk..Tsk..Tsk..
Ask a simple question, get a lot of crap in response. If you don't agree with the advice given here, then provide something better and cite your references.

Original poster - remember this: Obviously this incident has everyone upset. But you can't possibly guide him/her in this situation since you have not been a part of all of the discussions with management. Just lend your support and suggest that he/she contact an attorney if he/she would like to keep his/her job.

Otherwise, try to stay out of it so as not to position yourself to be next.

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#315064 - 02/11/05 08:26 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

You hit the nail on the head! He has someone else he wants to put into this poor fellow's position!

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#315065 - 02/11/05 11:24 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Anonymous
Unregistered

Thanks beaten blind for your calm. I am the original poster. I certainly didn't mean for this to get so heated over someone's sincere offer of advice. For those who did, thank you. For whoever it is who is so critical, stay out. I am a banker asking other bankers for advice.

I am sure there are things that I do not know in this situation, but apparently it was unethical because when this person contacted their banks legal representative who handles all of the HR issues, who in turn called the manager(s) in question, it was taken care of. The manager was apologetic and told this employee that he had stepped over the line and that if he wanted to stay (instead of resign!) then that would be OK. All VERY SURREAL!

Of course, this employee is relieved, but as we all know, the die has been cast and really all he got was time to actively start seeking another position! And continue to document, document, document!

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#315066 - 02/13/05 03:10 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Skeezex Offline
New Poster
Skeezex
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 16
Maybe he needs to look elsewhere for work, but only if the company condones this type of behavior from management. As the original poster puts it here, it sounds like a major breakdown in a managers performance. Unless this company is disfunctional, they'll keep an eye on the manager and it shouldn't happen again. However, as the employee, I'd ask for a copy of my personnel file. Once the employee has that in had, he knows where he stands in the eyes of the company. Management builds files to protect the company. What may appear to an employee to be nagging from a manager, may in fact be something that is being repeatedly documented for that day when the employee is released from service. He really needs to see his file to insure he is doing his job as expected. Management will likely be watching this manager. It is important to remember - as stated in a post above, if your company is operating in an "at will" state, then the company can "fire you with or without cause, with or without reason, with or without notice". And the employee is free to quit "with or without reason, with or without cause, and with or without notice." Note that I said the "company" can fire you. It should not come down to a renegade manager who is having a bad day, which is what appears to have happened here.
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#315067 - 02/14/05 04:14 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
NotALawyer Offline
Gold Star
NotALawyer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 455
Quote:

. . . the company can "fire you with or without cause, with or without reason, with or without notice". And the employee is free to quit "with or without reason, with or without cause, and with or without notice."




Today is going to be an interesting day, because when I read this part of the response, I pictured an employee sitting at his/her desk not knowing they were terminated. "We don't have to notify you that you were fired. We just stopped paying you hoping you would get the hint..." Or the "employee" coming to the office and playing Doom all day. "I quit. I just didn't notify them."

Ok, I guess it's back to Monday now...


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#315068 - 02/14/05 04:50 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Princess Leia Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,975
Alderaan
Quote:

I pictured an employee sitting at his/her desk not knowing they were terminated. "We don't have to notify you that you were fired. We just stopped paying you hoping you would get the hint..."




See, "Office Space" has some validity - Just hope the employee doesn't torch the place
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#315069 - 02/14/05 06:25 PM Re: Asking for a resignation
Noopette Offline
Member
Noopette
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76
"with or without notice" does not mean not notifying the employee s/he's been fired. It means you can walk up to an employee at any time and say "go home". You don't have to let them know ahead of time so they can prepare. If you plan to fire someone on Friday (which by the way is NEVER a good idea, but another subject), you don't have to let them know on Monday or Tuesday that this is their last week.

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