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#31771 - 09/09/02 06:12 PM New Account Opening- NO SSN
Anonymous
Unregistered

The question is can a financial institution open a non-interest bearing account for an individual who claims to have returned his SSN and asked to be exempt from the Federal Government taxing authority. He has filed for relief from an U.S. Taxing Authority and has provided sites such as the 20 Code of Federal Regulations, 31 CFR 103.34(a)1, Interan Revenue Code Sec. 6041 and 26 CFR301.609-1(c) and
42 USC 408.
Has anyone had any such requests and if so, how have you addressed such requests. I have talked with this person and he is not kidding around, he intends to pursue the matter and even bring the matter to court under the UCC Code Sec. 1-207. I have referred this matter to our legal dept. however, they simply said that he has to have a SSN or be a non-resident alien and complete a W8-BEN. I believe that there is more to this matter. I am familiar with the BSA requirements, U S Patriot Act 326 requirements also, pending, but feel that something is missing. I am told that friends of his have opened accounts in other states such as Nevada, Montana, Oregon, Arizona and virginia.

Your experiences and guidance would be greatly appreciated.

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General Discussion
#31772 - 09/09/02 06:32 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
rlcarey Offline
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rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 79,288
Galveston, TX
The guys a wacko. Tell him to produce a SSN or no account. Next thing you know he will start producing his own money, because the government money is worthless since it is no longer backed by gold. The Bank Secrecy Act requires you to obtain a TIN. I would not mess with him. If you do, your trouble is only beginning. Just a personal opinion. If you ask me directly, I'll tell you how I really feel. If the guy doesn't want to pay for the privledges he has, I will gladly buy him a ticket elsewhere.

OK - Rant over
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#31773 - 09/09/02 06:36 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 46,765
Bloomington, IN
Sounds like this guy will be a future “PIR”.

Here is how I think I would try to handle this. (I have nothing to back this up; it is strictly my thoughts on the situation.)

Mr. Jones, we understand you have applied for an exemption from the Federal Taxing Authorities, however until you are granted the exemption, you are still subject to the Federal Taxing Authorities and we will require the following information to open an account for you. If you refuse, or cannot produce this doucmentation, we will be unable to open the account for you under our current banking regulations and policies.
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#31774 - 09/09/02 06:42 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Andy_Z Offline
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Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,485
On the Net
In reply to:

Mr. Jones, we understand you have applied for an exemption from the Federal Taxing Authorities, however until you are granted the exemption, you are still subject to the Federal Taxing Authorities and we will require the following information to open an account for you. If you refuse, or cannot produce this doucmentation, we will be unable to open the account for you under our current banking regulations and policies.



I agree. The only addition might be where you whisper, "And you can get a better deal at the bank down the block anyway".
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#31775 - 09/09/02 06:43 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
waldensouth Offline
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waldensouth
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,979
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
We actually had a customer hire an attorney to sue us on the grounds that we allowed the federal government to garnish his account for past due taxes. The basis for the lawsuit was that income taxes are illegal. There is a group of people who keep trying this - my uncle repossessed a home from a fellow in Florida who didn't recognize any laws of the US except the maritime law. He tried to fight the reposession on that basis. Obviously, he lost.

Your customer does not have a chance of winning any such battle. Where would you like to spend your legal dollars - defending the bank against this anti-government customer or the IRS?
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#31776 - 09/09/02 07:03 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Neytiri Offline
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Neytiri
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 645
Pandora
About 10 years ago we had some of these wackos in our regional area. They do not believe that the Federal Government is legal, that the IRS has no jurisdiction to collect taxes, and that the Federal Reserve/Tresury/whatever does not have the right to print/regulate/etc. paper currency. These guys printed their own checks (not drawn on any bank) and were trying to cash them but didn't want paper currency. At the time we had just received an OCC advisory on these antigovernment groups and we notified the OCC. We refused any and all transactions with these guys.

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#31777 - 09/09/02 07:46 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
HRH Dawnie Offline
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HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
Actually maybe the question should be "Does the financial institution WANT to open an account....??????"

I've seen this same type of individual many times when I was a banker in Washington State. There is no law that says you absolutely have to do business with freaks and wacko's (well not yet). We...chose NOT to do business with individuals who chose not to provide us with the necessary information to conduct banking transactions, period. No ID, No SS, No Account! EVER!!!

Heck if a client was overly rude, drunk or belligerent, we chose not to do business with them as well. Why put yourself through the types of headaches you're already seeing? Say yes..and you'll be the specialist bank for all of his friends with similar opinions.

I've seen the docs, heard the threats...not one of them managed to get anywhere...cuz you know they have to deal with the court systems of our evil government to do so!

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#31778 - 09/09/02 08:18 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Dave M_TCA Offline
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Dave M_TCA
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 682
Wherever my most benevolent em...
Watch out for the next revision to Reg B... "Freaks" and "Wacko's" may become a protected class!
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#31779 - 09/09/02 08:21 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
JacF Offline

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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
I doubt that will happen, David. They're too disorganized to successfully lobby for protection...

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#31780 - 09/09/02 08:27 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
MackenzieS Offline
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MackenzieS
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,722
Oklahoma
It is true that you have no legal responsibility to open an account for this guy. I guess you could keep putting him off until the USA Patriot Act requires you to give him notice stating it is a legal requirement that he provide you with an identifying document. Boy, wouldn't he be mad to hear that and that you were taking a copy of it too! (It must be a conspiracy! We are all in on it aren't we!!!)

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#31781 - 09/09/02 08:31 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
DawgFan Offline
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DawgFan
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,678
United States
In reply to:

Watch out for the next revision to Reg B... "Freaks" and "Wacko's" may become a protected class!






Sample language "At no time shall any creditor discriminate on the basis of mental state (or lack thereof)".
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#31782 - 09/09/02 09:01 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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SMQ, CRCM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,828
Between the lines
They won't have to lobby for protection......

We got the privacy regualtions because some legislator got tired of junk mail.
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#31783 - 09/09/02 09:04 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Dave M_TCA Offline
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Dave M_TCA
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 682
Wherever my most benevolent em...
And what did that legislator get for their trouble? More paper than they ever wanted!
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David J Mulkerin, CRCM
All opinions expressed are mine and not those of my employer and are not to be taken as legal advice.

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#31784 - 09/09/02 09:13 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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SMQ, CRCM
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Posts: 4,828
Between the lines
Better known as "job security"
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#31785 - 09/11/02 02:52 PM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Walleye Woman Offline
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Walleye Woman
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 832
We ran into this when I worked in Montana. We told the customer that we would not open the account unless he supplied us with a SSN. We also ran into a customer who refused to personally sign their checks, instead using a fictitious name "in trust for". Needless to say the IRS caught up to them. After that, they gave the bank whatever was requested. I still don't know why the bank allowed them to sign that way in the first place.
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#31786 - 12/23/04 07:17 AM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Anonymous
Unregistered

You are right for the most part about the wierdo. But you are wrong about American money. U.S. money is very much worthless. We are forced by law to use it for payments of taxes. There is plenty of evidence (some from the FRB) to prove this without a doubt. Our money is backed by 2 things:
--The full faith of the American public and
--The law

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#31787 - 12/23/04 10:48 AM Re: New Account Opening- NO SSN
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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Kathleen O. Blanchard
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 21,277
As long as you receive goods and services in exchange for US currency it is not worthless. It would become worthless only when US dollars are no longer accepted in payment.
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