Skip to content
BOL Conferences
Learn More - Click Here!

Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Thread Options
#351654 - 04/26/05 09:16 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Like I said before the news, movies etc. etc. Tehy can see this stuff even on the internet. I know what my kids are watching when we are together and what they are doing on the internet. But I can not shield my kids from everything. Like when they go over to a friends house or looking up things on school computers. I do the best that I can do for my kids. If that isn't enough then I don't know what else I am supposed to go.




I'm pretty sure you can control what a five year-old sees at the movies. I'm pretty sure you can control whose houses they visit. I don't know what schools are allowing to be accessed on the internet by kindergarteners, but I bet it is pretty restricted. All that to say, I don't think this mom has much of an excuse.

Quote:

Heck, I won't even let my kids go to Chuck E Cheese because they discriminate against the handicapped. Does that make me a bad parent??




Disregarding the non-sequitur, how does Chuck E Cheese discriminate? (Just curious.)

Return to Top
Chat! - BOL Watercooler
#351655 - 04/26/05 09:17 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Bengals Fan Offline
Power Poster
Bengals Fan
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I disagree with the parents. not ALL parents are to blame, some yes. I discipline my children, and I still have one that acts like this.




The only person to blame for bad behavior are those that allow the behavior to continue. If you discipline your child and he/she doesn't respond by acting properly, you aren't getting results; consider other methods.

A paddling can be effective for one child, where it might not be for another. A time out in the corner can be effective for one child but not another. Believe it or not, a good friend of mine's daughter has a temper. The punishment that worked? Positive reinforcement. That's right, punishment didn't fix the problem, rewards for good behavior did.




I agree with the positive reinforcement. That is what I have been taught to do lately. Paddling? Yeah maybe. To some extent. You can only paddle a kid for so long until that doesn't work anymore and then move onto the next step in punishment that might work.




I was raised and I "remember" getting wupped regularly and having to go pick out the switch to get spanked with. A few years ago, I was discussing this with my parents and my father smiled and told me that he had only wupped me twice in my entire life. Every other time, all he had to say was "go pick your switch" and I'd straighten up.

It works as a detterant (much better than the death penalty because kids believe they are gonna get it).

Like I said though, every child is different, and while one kid might respond to the paddling with "oh yeah, you can't hurt me" which, if you are not trying to abuse the child, he is right, while another, the slightest little smack on the bottom will make them feel punished. Other kids might be more effectively punished by being told no peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a week (works unbelievably well on my nephew because he LOVES peanut butter).

Return to Top
#351656 - 04/26/05 09:23 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
dalejrfanatic Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 280
WI
Quote:

Quote:



Disregarding the non-sequitur, how does Chuck E Cheese discriminate? (Just curious.)




The Chuck E Cheese in a town close to me discriminated against a Handicapped person. The guy was in a wheel chair and was hired. A couple days later was fired because "They do not hire those kind of people" This is wrong.

web page
Last edited by dalejrfanatic; 04/26/05 09:30 PM.
Return to Top
#351657 - 04/26/05 09:30 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
So it would probably be more accurate to say that an individual employed by Chuck E Cheese discriminated against a handicapped person, right? I mean, I doubt this is in their HR manual.

Return to Top
#351658 - 04/26/05 09:31 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
zaibatsu Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
Quote:

I don't know what schools are allowing to be accessed on the internet by kindergarteners, but I bet it is pretty restricted.




WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! What happened to personal expression? Where has all the freedom gone? Did they at least have a written policy against certain websites and a procedure for dealing with the little perps (or is that pervs)?
Last edited by Dr. -Z-; 04/26/05 09:31 PM.
_________________________
Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city

Return to Top
#351659 - 04/26/05 09:35 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Deacon G Offline
100 Club
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 106
East
I agree that positive reinforcement rather than punishment works for some children, but isn't that what parents are for, to discern what works??

Return to Top
#351660 - 04/26/05 09:38 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
tahdah Offline
Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 932
I can only relate a story that happened when my child was in elementary school. A six year old had some "problems" but was being "main streamed". It was recess and the kids were told to come in. He refused. A mother who volunteered to assist at recess gently put her hand on his back and he halled off, slugged her in the eye, broke her glasses and gave her a black eye. 6 YEARS OLD!!!!!!! I don't agree with the handcuffs, but these little kids can do damage. Fortunately he was "school of choice" at our school so they were able to kick him out.

Return to Top
#351661 - 04/27/05 12:28 AM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
The police were called AFTER the school police told the principal that they were too busy and she would have to wait.

In the video the child is slapping...you know how little girls sort of wave their arms in front of them with that sort of paddling motion? I would not have feared for my safety, and I'm a great deal closer in size to her than these women were. In addition, they taunted her in the classroom, telling her she'd made the room unsafe for other children, etc. This is not how children should be handled. The other thing they did was to film the child and not turn the camera off. A great comment made in the story was from a child psychologist who said that the events were exacerbated by the fact that the child knew she was being filmed. Children act up in front of a camera. She hid her face a few times and tried to get away and the camera operator kept following her around. She turned and twisted to get away and the camera stayed. If I were completely peeved, and I'm a bit more able to hide that I'd be awfully difficult if a camera didn't get out of my face when I told them to.

It would be nice if schools had some balance with discipline, I agree, but cuffing a kid who has calmed down is not the answer.
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#351662 - 04/27/05 12:36 AM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
corkygirl Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,241
middle of the country
Good point Dawnie, I didn't think about the fact that the camera made the situation much worse. I just can't come to terms with handcuffing a 5 year old child, especially when she was calm when the police got there. All they had to do was wait for the mother. If that had been my child, I'm not sure that I would not take some type of action against the school and the police. She was not "slugging", she was doing the little girl swat . Anyone that has been around small kids sees that all the time and it rarely does any damage. Just my opinion, as a mother.
_________________________
Treading water in a hurricane

Return to Top
#351663 - 04/27/05 01:25 AM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Fraudman CFCI Offline
Power Poster
Fraudman CFCI
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,189
Land of Steady Habits
I am a former police officer abeit, many years ago, and never was placed in this situation. Times have changed, though.

The reason police officers use handcuffs is to protect themselves and the accused/suspect. I cannot say whether or not use was warranted in this situation because I was not there.

I can tell you than when violent people are taken into custody it is in everyones interest that handcuffs are used.

Had the police not done this and the child had resorted to violence that had been exhibited, what would the press be reporting when three or four police officers tried to subdue her? I can tell you from first hand experience, that someone who does not want to be handcuffed, no matter the size of the person, can put up a tremendous struggle.


This is a no-win situation for the cops. They were called to do a job and they did it with the tools that they have been trained to use.

Return to Top
#351664 - 04/27/05 02:48 AM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Truffle Royale Online

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,408
Guess I'm on the 'spare the rod, spoil the child' side of this one. I don't advocate spanking but I do advocate discipline.

And I don't buy into it being harder to raise children now than it was then either. It's different, yes. But each generation faces it's own set of difficulties and believe me, we all think our's is/was the toughest ever.

Too many children today think tv and computers and all the rest are their right. And their parents think their little angels can do no wrong and they'll sue if anyone opposes that view.

Now, before you jump on me, I did not say EVERY child or EVERY parent is this way. I will say that apparently way too many are this way and it is affecting society in a very negative way.

Return to Top
#351665 - 04/27/05 12:40 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Neytiri Offline
Platinum Poster
Neytiri
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 645
Pandora
I guess I must be older than most of you or something, because if my child wasn't obeying, out of control, etc. I feel he would deserve whatever he got. Handcuffs, spanking, whatever. Not obeying is not an option.

And he would get consequences when he got home too. Not necessarily spanking but his privledges would certainly be curtailed for a considerable length of time. Writing "I will obey my teachers" about 100 times is another time-honored 'cure' in my household. Positive reinforcement for good behavior works wonders also. Wonder what this girl's mom did besides hire a lawyer?

Children have to learn there are consequences for every action - whether it be a good consequence for good behavior or a bad consequence for bad behavior. This is the way the life is.

Return to Top
#351666 - 04/27/05 12:49 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Retired DQ Offline
10K Club
Retired DQ
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
Quote:

Children have to learn there are consequences for every action - whether it be a good consequence for good behavior or a bad consequence for bad behavior. This is the way the life is.




Well said, Donna! The problem we have in our culture today with raising our children is that we are sooo afraid of damaging their psyches , we ultimately end up destroying their abilities to make decisions. And, we end up with a bunch of self-centered, selfish, instant gratifiers.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

Return to Top
#351667 - 04/27/05 01:08 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
waldensouth Offline
Power Poster
waldensouth
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,986
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
Parenting is the most difficult task any human will ever undertake. We don't know a lot about this mother or the situation. We can only speculate - 1) the child is spoiled with NO discipline at home or a bad role model at home or 2) the child is troubled. Teachers have enough to deal with in the classroom without having to deal with disturbed children. The 4 year old son of one of my friends was being bullied at school by another troubled 4-year old. My friend brought this to the attention of the school yet they did nothing. One day that troubled 4 year old stabbed my friend's son on the playground with a fork. Why was that troubled and violent child left in a classroom with the other children? The Parents might sue because they felt their child had a "right" to a main-stream education. I disagree with those parents - their child's rights end where the other children's right begin - their right to an education without fear of violence. I think we try too hard to mainstream these children when they should be taught in a separate classroom by teachers who are specially trained to deal with their behaviour disorders until such time as the children have learned appropriate behaviours and can control themselves.
_________________________
"Once you learn to read, you will be forever free."

- Frederick Douglass




My Opinion Only.

Return to Top
#351668 - 04/27/05 02:29 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
OnTheEdge Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,677
SmallTown, USA
Somewhere in the reports I heard about this, I also understood the mother had been phoned, but did not arrive before things escalated.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Return to Top
#351669 - 04/27/05 04:10 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Pup Offline
Power Poster
Pup
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,045
Pedaling along a scenic highwa...
Okay, I read the first page and that is all. I have not read the article and will not.

The police have no business here and as an officer, I would be extremely angry if I was called away to respond to this. Why was the parent not called (or was she)? Is the parent also out of control? If that is the case, shouldn't DHS be called?

If it were my kid, I'd be raging....then I'd take up the matter with my kid.

I don't believe in lawsuits as a matter of expression...it seems too many people abuse the court system to make a point. But, you can bet that the school would be punished for this, if I were involved.

What a load of BS.

Return to Top
#351670 - 04/27/05 04:12 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Anonymous
Unregistered

I did not read the article either, Fraud Pup, was she hand-cuffed for wearing a pin about her vagina?

Return to Top
#351671 - 04/27/05 04:34 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

I have not read the article and will not.





Well then, by all means - give us your uninformed opinion!

Return to Top
#351672 - 04/27/05 04:47 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Rie A Offline
Platinum Poster
Rie A
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 829
Maryland
This is a tough situation with many sides to it. I have a "troubled" child myself. The police have been called multiple times, to protect him as well as the school staff. I also have a very good relationship with the school. I understand, and accept, that my child is troubled and the school staff knows how I feel about their treatment of him. I have arrived at school to find the principal sitting on the floor bear hugging my child, holding in his arms. This was elementary school. He was out of control and she did not want him to run away or to hurt himself or anyone else. She told me later that she was worried about what she was doing but was comfortable enough with me to take the chance. Had it been another child with a less involved, understanding parent she could have been in a lot of trouble. I was grateful that she held him down until I could get there 10 minutes later.

When he started middle school I again established relationships with the staff there and a male administrator did the same thing again but was barely able to hold onto him and my son actually hurt him trying to get away. The gentleman was worried that if he got away he would hurt himself, and he was probably right. He also stated that he only did this because he thought it was the best course of action and also thought I would allow it. I am grateful to them both for taking this risk with my son, they were right to trust in me. Unfortunately, a lot of parents would be quick to sue for their "inappropriate" actions. Now my son is larger, too big to hold down. Now they, and I, must call the police when he gets out of hand.

Now, my son is bi-polar. This is not my fault, not because I did not punish him or because I spoiled him. My only fault here is carrying the genes that did this to him. I have tried everything I could think of, every thing the school could think of and everything his multiple doctors and counselors have thought of...nothing works...yet. We are still trying and will keep trying, he turns 13 this year.

As for the school owing children a main stream education, they do NOT. The school system owes the children AN education. My son is now in a self contained classroom, four kids and three teachers. This barely suffices for my son and he HATES it. But, it is the best the school system can do for him and I appreciate it.

The school system is not perfect, the police are not perfect, our children are not perfect and I for one am definitely not a perfect mother! However, we all keep trying to do the best we can.

Did all of the adults in this situation do the best that they could, no. However, we do not know what this child is normally like, how her mother handles these situations or what would happen next if she were not detained. I personally think the handcuffs were a bit much, but I was not there.

Sorry for the rant, but I have dealt with this for many years and come across many prejudices against my son and I. We really are doing the best that we can and would do anything that would help and the police here in our county have been great.
_________________________
God made the world in only 7 days... but he didn't have any paperwork.

Return to Top
#351673 - 04/27/05 05:05 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Truffle Royale Online

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,408
No rant to apologize for. You've offered another side of the coin and it is appreciated.

Unfortunately, the press had a field day with this incident but they left out the contributing issues...probably because it would have diminished the effect.

Return to Top
#351674 - 04/27/05 05:14 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
Zamboni Driver Offline
Platinum Poster
Zamboni Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 776
Going round and round
Rie A - great post. People (including myself) tend to see a unruly child and assume bad parenting, but there are things that can influence behavior beyond the control of the parent. Thanks for reminding us of that.

That being said, I applaud your attitude towards the school and police. You understand the motives behind their actions. Unfortunately, many people in this country don't share your attitude. Even if they are trying to do the right thing for the child, parents ignore motive and focus on the actions. Their child could not be responsible for anything that might have provoked the actions taken, and immediately resort to law suits. Unfortunately, that is the state of this country. In most cases, I cannot fault the school for calling the police.

ZD
_________________________
Everything is possible with time and motivation

Return to Top
#351675 - 04/27/05 05:23 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
waldensouth Offline
Power Poster
waldensouth
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,986
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
It sounds like you are in a extraordinary school system that is working hard with you because they know you are working hard for your son. Your son is in an ideal setting where he can learn without the fear of harming himself or harming others. No doubt his teachers are trained to help him in ways that other classroom teachers are not. It takes a special gift to work with physically or emotionally handicapped children. We have a school here that is dedicated to helping educate these children and many of my friends are teachers there. The stories they tell..... It makes a big difference in the child's success when the parents are fully involved.
_________________________
"Once you learn to read, you will be forever free."

- Frederick Douglass




My Opinion Only.

Return to Top
#351676 - 04/27/05 05:50 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
bluebanker Offline
Diamond Poster
bluebanker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,227
Bear Country
So those who feel this was overboard, what would you have suggested? Maybe you think we should all sit down with children who attack people and ask them, "How does it make you feel?"

So let me get this straight. You can't yell at your children (verbal abuse) and you can't discipline them by spanking (abuse yet again). Now you can't restrain children? For those worried about this girl being scared of police for the rest of her life, what is her opinion of them going to be now? Her mother is saying, "If they do anything you don't like, just sue them." She is taking away their authority.

I'm just waiting for this to turn into a race issue...
_________________________
If you're not first, you're last.

Return to Top
#351677 - 04/27/05 05:50 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
zaibatsu Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
In Texas, there was a major lawsuit that had huge implications in the mental health care arena. It involved a mentally ill patient who was forcibly held down by 5 large men. I think they injured him. What was lost in the reporting was that this man had incredible strenght. For instance, he had been given a pair of Levis to wear and with his bare hands tore them to shreds. Have you ever tried to tear a pair of jeans to shreds with your bare hands. The point is that each incident is unique and you can't judge it from media reports.
_________________________
Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city

Return to Top
#351678 - 04/27/05 05:52 PM Re: 5 Year Old Handcuffed??????
zaibatsu Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
Quote:

So those who feel this was overboard, what would you have suggested? Maybe you think we should all sit down with children who attack people and ask them, "How does it make you feel?"

So let me get this straight. You can't yell at your children (verbal abuse) and you can't discipline them by spanking (abuse yet again). Now you can't restrain children? For those worried about this girl being scared of police for the rest of her life, what is her opinion of them going to be now? Her mother is saying, "If they do anything you don't like, just sue them." She is taking away their authority.

I'm just waiting for this to turn into a race issue...




Maybe she can wear a pin to school that expresses her opinion on this issue.
_________________________
Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city

Return to Top
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6