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#351880 - 04/26/05 09:55 PM What's worse?
Anonymous
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What's worse, the handcuffing of a five year old girl, or this.

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#351881 - 04/26/05 10:08 PM Re: What's worse?
doodle Offline
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I honestly don't see how the two are comparable.
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#351882 - 04/27/05 01:36 AM Re: What's worse?
Fraudman CFCI Offline
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Actually, the two are very realted as the incidents point out the difference between the two cultures. The behavior of the child would not be tolerated in the Muslim country and very likely not only would she be punished, but probaly also her parents.

I do not agree with the type of punishment meted out for the adultery but it is the law in that country. Who are we to question the laws of other countries?

The countries have existed for thousands of years and have enforced their laws thusly. I truly believe in our system but just as strongly I do not believe we are in a position to criticize others for the laws the have or their justice system.

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#351883 - 04/27/05 12:25 PM Re: What's worse?
Retired DQ Offline
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It's scary when I agree with Fraudman & jokerman...
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#351884 - 04/27/05 01:27 PM Re: What's worse?
Jokerman Offline
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Wait, I haven't posted to this thread.

What's more, I disagree with Fraudman. I hope the Karzai government puts a stop to this. How can anyone possibly support this - the guy gets a flogging, the girl is put to death? What standards of evidence were there?

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#351885 - 04/27/05 01:39 PM Re: What's worse?
GreatBlue Offline
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I do not believe we are in a position to criticize others for the laws the have or their justice system.



Why on earth not?
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#351886 - 04/27/05 01:47 PM Re: What's worse?
Retired DQ Offline
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Quote:

Wait, I haven't posted to this thread.




Actually jm, I was referring to the 5 year old handcuffing thread.
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#351887 - 04/27/05 02:10 PM Re: What's worse?
Jokerman Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I do not believe we are in a position to criticize others for the laws the have or their justice system.



Why on earth not?




Sounds like moral relativism to me.

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#351888 - 04/27/05 02:21 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

I do not agree with the type of punishment meted out for the adultery but it is the law in that country. Who are we to question the laws of other countries?

The countries have existed for thousands of years and have enforced their laws thusly. I truly believe in our system but just as strongly I do not believe we are in a position to criticize others for the laws the have or their justice system.




Easy to say when through fortunate circumstances you were born a male in the United States. Although, I don't advocate invading a country to change a law or custom like this, nevertheless I will say (based upon my understanding of the Truth) this type of justice is abuse regardless of the culture and is wrong. And I am in a position (indeed even a responsibility) to point out that there is a better way.

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#351889 - 04/27/05 02:21 PM Re: What's worse?
Bengals Fan Offline
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Quote:

Who are we to question the laws of other countries?





The United States of America.

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#351890 - 04/27/05 03:03 PM Re: What's worse?
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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In regard to handcuffing the 5 year old, does anyone know why the mother could not come immediately to the school or at least send a representative to pick up the child?

In one report, the news said that the mother was called to come to the school to pick up the child, but she said that she could not come for at least an hour. I don't understand this, what is more important than your child? If her job prevented her from leaving work, then she should have told the school that she was sending her spouse, mom, dad, best friend, somebody to act in her place and take the child home or at the very least, deal with the situation until she got there.

Children have tantrums, such is life. I wonder how mom deals with them at home that this child would behave so badly at school. I am not saying that she should have been handcuffed, only that there are other issues that make you wonder.
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#351891 - 04/27/05 03:07 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
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Slavery, indentured servitude, etc. used to be accepted in many countries until other nations put pressure on them to stop. Let's not discuss degrees of "bad" here. Some old traditions of dealing with certain issues, like the adultery example, are simply wrong and pressure can and should be put on those countries to change.

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#351892 - 04/27/05 03:27 PM Re: What's worse?
Raiderette Offline
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Quote:

I honestly don't see how the two are comparable.




I agree.
A grown woman, and a child....
The US, and afghanistan...
Both are sad and have a lot to debate about but beyond that, nothing.
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#351893 - 04/27/05 06:13 PM Re: What's worse?
An0n Offline
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The guards won't tell me.
Quote:

Slavery, indentured servitude, etc. used to be accepted in many countries until other nations put pressure on them to stop. Let's not discuss degrees of "bad" here. Some old traditions of dealing with certain issues, like the adultery example, are simply wrong and pressure can and should be put on those countries to change.


Wrong according to what? Religious doctrine? The US' standards? Good and evil are only in the eye's of the beholder.

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#351894 - 04/27/05 06:19 PM Re: What's worse?
Jokerman Offline
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Quote:

Good and evil are only in the eye's of the beholder.




So there are no moral absolutes?

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#351895 - 04/27/05 07:02 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Wrong according to what? Religious doctrine? The US' standards? Good and evil are only in the eye's of the beholder.




This is a perfect example of the lazy type of thinking that has caused trouble for us since the beginning of time.

According to your logic, if I don't think it's evil for me to kill you, then it's OK. Right?

If you really believe the drivel you just spouted, then you cannot take a different position and maintain your integrity.

The majority simply must agree upon a frame of reference for moral standards. Without these standards, there are no morals and anarchy reigns.

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#351896 - 04/27/05 07:38 PM Re: What's worse?
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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Between the lines
Does anyone have an answer to this post?
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#351897 - 04/27/05 07:48 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Ok, we're handcuffing a five year old and what is the other dtory? At work we have so many restrictions, I can't get it to come up. Some one help me here!

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#351898 - 04/27/05 07:51 PM Re: What's worse?
slick Offline
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somewhere out there
Quote:

Ok, we're handcuffing a five year old and what is the other dtory? At work we have so many restrictions, I can't get it to come up. Some one help me here!




That was me, didn't sign in.
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#351899 - 04/27/05 07:58 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

In regard to handcuffing the 5 year old, does anyone know why the mother could not come immediately to the school or at least send a representative to pick up the child?

In one report, the news said that the mother was called to come to the school to pick up the child, but she said that she could not come for at least an hour. I don't understand this, what is more important than your child? If her job prevented her from leaving work, then she should have told the school that she was sending her spouse, mom, dad, best friend, somebody to act in her place and take the child home or at the very least, deal with the situation until she got there.

Children have tantrums, such is life. I wonder how mom deals with them at home that this child would behave so badly at school. I am not saying that she should have been handcuffed, only that there are other issues that make you wonder.




There is another thread about this topic where you should post your questions. Not here.

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#351900 - 04/27/05 08:06 PM Re: What's worse?
An0n Offline
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Posts: 306
The guards won't tell me.
The standards by which the Afgan people live are different than ours correct? What is morally wrong to us is the social standard over there. Who are we to tell them what is right and wrong? How is our thinking better than theirs? They do have a frame of reference for moral standards... they're much harsher and in most cases different than ours, but the framework is still there and adhered to. As I said before (with punctuation error fixed ) Good and Evil are in the eyes of the beholder. I DO think that adultery is treated harshly over there, because the punishment for the act is evil in MY eyes. Over there, it is a fact of life and is not considered evil. What IS considered evil over there is adultery. The couple involved knew the consequences of their actions and were obviously prepared for them; otherwise they wouldn't have done it to begin with. Oh, and if you don't think it's evil to kill me, fine... I agree. It's OK in your book to kill me. Obviously it's not OK by US laws, but if your mind has decided it's a fine thing to do, then you can justify it. Just be prepared for the consequences of your actions like the couple in Afghanistan was.

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#351901 - 04/27/05 09:53 PM Re: What's worse?
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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Between the lines
So sorry, did not mean to hijack the thread.
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#351902 - 04/27/05 10:07 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
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Quote:

So sorry, did not mean to hijack the thread.




No need to apologize. I just figured you'd find out more at the other thread.

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#351903 - 04/27/05 10:13 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

The standards by which the Afgan people live are different than ours correct? What is morally wrong to us is the social standard over there. Who are we to tell them what is right and wrong? How is our thinking better than theirs? They do have a frame of reference for moral standards... they're much harsher and in most cases different than ours, but the framework is still there and adhered to. As I said before (with punctuation error fixed ) Good and Evil are in the eyes of the beholder. I DO think that adultery is treated harshly over there, because the punishment for the act is evil in MY eyes. Over there, it is a fact of life and is not considered evil. What IS considered evil over there is adultery. The couple involved knew the consequences of their actions and were obviously prepared for them; otherwise they wouldn't have done it to begin with. Oh, and if you don't think it's evil to kill me, fine... I agree. It's OK in your book to kill me. Obviously it's not OK by US laws, but if your mind has decided it's a fine thing to do, then you can justify it. Just be prepared for the consequences of your actions like the couple in Afghanistan was.




I promise I'm not tyring to push your buttons, I'm simply trying to help us to think this through. If you're game, let's try a different approach:

Upon what do you base your viewpoint that the punishment for the act is evil in YOUR eyes?

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#351904 - 04/27/05 10:13 PM Re: What's worse?
Anonymous
Unregistered

The above post was by Anon-o-mus.

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