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#353170 - 04/29/05 02:09 PM
Iranians may lower price of oil...
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But not in any way that is going to help: article
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#353171 - 04/29/05 03:27 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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Interesting...but would I still have to create my CRA and HMDA submission if this happened?
EMP attacks have been known about for years, it was part of ours and the USSRs first-strike strategy in the event of a nuclear war. A high altitude nuclear detonation combined with a quick conventional strike is the best way to subdue an enemy and keep most of their infrastructure intact.
I'm surprised it's taken everyone this long to bring it up.
On the plus side, if we were instantly knocked back to the 18th century, we'd still be 11 centuries ahead of Iran. 
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#353172 - 04/29/05 03:37 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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It hasn't taken this long to bring up. The US military considered it before Iraq (both times) and Afghanistan. They did not do it due (I would guess) primarily because of the stigma associated with using nuclear weapons.
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#353173 - 04/29/05 03:50 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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I think it's time to lay the smackdown on Iran...We have even more reasons to attack them than we ever did against Iraq. I can still only think of two reasons to go after Iraq (I know, beating a dead horse):
1) He tried to assassinate George HW Bush.
2) Hussein was trying to change the oil purchasing standard to Euros from USD in an effort to circumvent the restrictions placed on his oil sales and to undermine our economy.
Either one could be grounds to do it...But they are shaky.
I think it's funny that the two most dangerous rogue states in the world (N.Korea and Iran) were left alone, and we settle for second prizes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the Taliban or Saddam, the world is better off without them running loose...But it seems like we were more comfortable dealing with the petty small evil than the bigger more costly and dangerous EVIL.
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#353174 - 04/29/05 04:11 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Good lord - Euros? What consipiracy book are you reading now?
And "left alone"? Who is leaving anyone alone? Classic logical fallacy - believing things will always be as they currently appear.
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#353175 - 04/29/05 04:21 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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I meant left alone militarily. I know we are placing diplomatic pressure on them - but both are more of an immediate large-scale threat than Iraq or Afghanistan ever could be!
I read (and I forget where, it was just prior to the Iraq invasion) that Germany and France were against our invading Iraq because they were in the process of securing lucrative oil rights contracts with Iraq because Hussein was going to sell his oil only in Euros. Currently the standard for purchasing oil is US Dollars. Just think of the ramifications of a shift from dollars to Euros for all oil sales - It would definitely impact our economy and banking in general. Nations would no longer need to hold reserves of dollars for future oil purchases, they would house their assets in EC banks and that would in turn boost the strength of the Euro further.
You can proclaim conspiracy theory all you like, but I believe it's as viable a conclusion as any other. Or do you still believe in the fallacy of WMDs?
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#353176 - 04/29/05 04:35 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Quote:
I meant left alone militarily. I know we are placing diplomatic pressure on them - but both are more of an immediate large-scale threat than Iraq or Afghanistan ever could be!
So we must deal with every threat in the same way or not at all?
Quote:
I read (and I forget where, it was just prior to the Iraq invasion) that Germany and France were against our invading Iraq because they were in the process of securing lucrative oil rights contracts with Iraq because Hussein was going to sell his oil only in Euros. Currently the standard for purchasing oil is US Dollars. Just think of the ramifications of a shift from dollars to Euros for all oil sales - It would definitely impact our economy and banking in general. Nations would no longer need to hold reserves of dollars for future oil purchases, they would house their assets in EC banks and that would in turn boost the strength of the Euro further.
Have you ever heard of exchange rates? One significant reason the price of oil is so high right now is the lower Dollar - what does it matter whether the price negotiated was in Euros or Dollars?
As to what nations hold supplies of Dollars. There is only one reason to have a Dollar, and that is to buy something (a product, a service, or an investment) in the United States. Do the Saudis want Dollars? Yes, because they want to buy things from the US. To the extent that any oil-producing nation would not want dollars, it would be due to a desire to purchase something from another country. As that demand changes (it has, by the way), the value of the dollar relative to other currencies (the exchange rate) falls and other products become more attractive to other buyers. Meanwhile, import prices increase, and therefore Americans are more likely to buy American products. These things have a way of evening out when the market is left alone without governments interfering. (This is why the "trade deficit" talk is bunk.)
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You can proclaim conspiracy theory all you like, but I believe it's as viable a conclusion as any other. Or do you still believe in the fallacy of WMDs?
Do I "believe in the fallacy of WMDs"? I assume you mean, do I believe that Saddam had WMDs? No, it is obvious that there was an intelligence failure that led the world to believe that he did currently have the weapons, when in fact he only had the ability to produce them.
There is no question, however, that he promoted terrorism, and I can't see how anyone can argue that America is not more secure for having removed him.
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#353177 - 04/29/05 04:39 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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Quote:
No, it is obvious that there was an intelligence failure that led the world to believe that he did currently have the weapons
My God, what are you smoking!? The WORLD!? Wrong! Only the US and Britain (under extreme pressure from the US) believed it. Why do you think we had so much trouble putting together a coalition!
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#353178 - 04/29/05 04:44 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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The world wasn't willing to do anything about it. But there is no question that other nations believed he had WMDs.
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#353179 - 04/29/05 04:47 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Though the weapons threat that underpinned the U.S. war in Iraq was nonexistent, (weapons inspector David) Kay didn't blame the Bush administration alone. After reviewing intelligence reports from many nations, Kay said France, Germany, and other nations were also convinced that Hussein had clandestine weapons programs.
Source.
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#353180 - 04/29/05 04:50 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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Quote:
The world wasn't willing to do anything about it. But there is no question that other nations believed he had WMDs.
"Other nations" is not the WORLD.
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#353181 - 04/29/05 05:02 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Quote:
Quote:
The world wasn't willing to do anything about it. But there is no question that other nations believed he had WMDs.
"Other nations" is not the WORLD.
Nice subject-verb agreement.
No, a few "other nations" would not be. But there was consensus among the world's powers that Iraq had WMDs. If you want to argue about this, go ahead. I'm done - anyone that can google "Iraq WMDs world intelligence failure" can know the truth.
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#353182 - 04/29/05 05:53 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Way, way south.
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Quote:
Quote:
The world wasn't willing to do anything about it. But there is no question that other nations believed he had WMDs.
"Other nations" is not the WORLD.
Sounds vaguely like something I have heard before....oh yeah, "......it depends what the definition of "is" is....."
Bill, is that you???
_________________________
Giddy up.
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#353183 - 04/29/05 05:56 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
"Other nations" is not the WORLD.
Nice subject-verb agreement.
Actually, collective nouns (phrases that define a singular group, as in this context) take a single verb. So, it is correct.
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#353184 - 04/29/05 06:37 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Quote:
Actually, collective nouns (phrases that define a singular group, as in this context) take a single verb. So, it is correct.
Wow, you anons is smart.
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#353185 - 04/29/05 06:40 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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So, by your logic....The Dallas Cowboys are a great football team?
"You anons" is not the same as the phrase "other nations."
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#353186 - 04/29/05 06:42 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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This is an exercise in futility. Jokerman has never, ever been wrong in his entire life; just ask him.
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#353187 - 04/29/05 06:51 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Quote:
So, by your logic....The Dallas Cowboys are a great football team? "You anons" is not the same as the phrase "other nations."
"Other nations" is not a collective subject in the sense that "The Dallas Cowboys" would be. The disctinction (for purposes of determining whether to use single or plural verbs) is in the capacity to act independently - now, if you referred to "other Dallas Cowboys," that would obviously be a reference to a number of members and require a plural verb. When you refer to the team as a whole, you use a singular verb. Similarly, if one referred to "the United Nations," one would use a singular verb, while if one referred to "other nations," one would properly use a plural verb.
Your very point was that some nations disagreed, was it not?
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#353188 - 04/29/05 06:56 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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This is an exercise in futility. Jokerman has never, ever been wrong in his entire life; just ask him.
Is the only motive in your posting to prove me wrong about something? (I can see why that would frustrate you.) But if it is, I'll gladly admit to something so that you will go away...
Let's see...I once purchased a Billy Joel CD. Can't say I was right to do that. I took a government job once. Not real bright. Oh, and just for good measure, I had a typo the other day when I tried to type "police." (Of course, I didn't make the further mistake off trying to cover it up with the obviously wrong application of a rule of grammar...)
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#353189 - 04/29/05 07:00 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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"Other nations" as a coalition or unit like "the United Nations" or "the Dallas Cowboys" is indeed a collective subject.
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#353190 - 04/29/05 07:05 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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"Other nations" as a coalition or unit
You would have a point if they were acting in unison. But if you will read my post again, you will see that I used it to refer to the nations that were not acting as a unit. In fact, your very point was that they did not believe the same thing.
Whatever. Fine, you're right. Why don't you argue the substance?
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#353191 - 04/29/05 07:12 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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I know that I'm right. I don't need you to tell me that.
Argue the substance? What substance? I was merely pointing out that the agreement of a few nations (this is the phrase "other nations" acting in unison as you finally understand) certainly did not constitute the WORLD agreeing as you indicated. When I pointed that out, you chose to attack a grammar point.
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#353192 - 04/29/05 07:27 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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Someones watching too much "24" and coming up with this hogwash theories...the Iranians are more concerned about the Isrelis than us...Saddam was also going to do the same...
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#353193 - 04/29/05 07:43 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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I know that I'm right. I don't need you to tell me that.
Argue the substance? What substance? I was merely pointing out that the agreement of a few nations (this is the phrase "other nations" acting in unison as you finally understand) certainly did not constitute the WORLD agreeing as you indicated. When I pointed that out, you chose to attack a grammar point.
Chickenon, I repeated several times the point that the WORLD's powers AGREED that Saddam had WMDs. (For reference, see the Kay report.) That is the fact. There were two groups, one of nations that thought Saddam had WMDs and was ready to do something about it, and another that thought Saddam had WMDs but didn't want to do anything about it. Everybody was wrong on the first point. Your French buddies and some "others" were wrong on the second.
If you want to argue against those points, go ahead.
(And if you keep bringing up your grammar error, I will start making fun of that again, too. I originally said four words about it, while going on to write a paragraph refuting the substance of your point. You then proceeded to try to cover up the error by devoting three entire posts to it.)
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#353194 - 04/29/05 08:48 PM
Re: Iranians may lower price of oil...
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Anonymous
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Anybody want to bet that no matter what is posted, Jokerman will HAVE to have the last word? Well, maybe not.
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