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#360533 - 06/09/05 05:36 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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school board (highly paid)
School board members are paid in your district?
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#360534 - 06/09/05 05:57 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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Not to fan this flame unnecessarily but...I wish I could get paid what our teachers make for the amount of work they do! I understand that teachers' salaries vary widely across the US so I can only speak for what I see here in front of me. I will use my mom (a 5th grade teacher) as an example. She makes approximately $65k per year, works from 7:45 - 2:15 daily, only occasionally has to bring work home with her, and has to work for only 9 months out of the year! I mean, COME ON! We have the same amount of education! She has YEARS of experience on me, I grant you that. But if you divide the amount of money she makes by 9 (the number of months she actually works) and then times that number by 12 (the numbers of months the rest of us have to work), she earns a pretty big, fat salary! Probably more than I will be making after 20 years experience. And she has excellent benefits, better than I could ever hope for (unless I went to work for the government). So what, she has to put up with crap...so do the rest of us! So what, state standards can be difficult to adhere too...try suffering through banking regulations! ugh! I am just so frustrated by all this talk about how teachers don't get paid enough. Maybe I should quit my job, get a teaching credential and teach. At least then I would have a whole summer to do whatever the hell I want...like spend some time with my child!
Sorry about the ranting...
I would say that is an exception to the norm. My mother is a 5th grade teacher and I make more than her at 30K a year! She brings work home 3 out the 5 days of the week and has to work during the summer. Crazy huh! 
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#360536 - 06/09/05 08:15 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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I have an idea for the $14,000 per student school. Cut the funding to the school in half. Use the other half to pay the parents to show up at the school and for being involved in their child's education. Additionally, pay the parents to get their high school diplomas or equivalencies.
Of course I am kidding, but it would work.
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#360537 - 06/09/05 08:18 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Posts: 19,858
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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School board members are paid in your district?
Public school boards in Louisiana are elected positions. Some of them pay very well, even as the school systems they serve are slowly eroding into nothing. I'm not aware of any private schools boards that are compensated.
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Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#360538 - 06/09/05 09:33 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 932
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Pyxis, I'm right there with your rant. Most in my family are teachers so I know what I'm talking about. Currently my neice is a special ed teacher in a large inner city school system. They work 6 hours with one hr prep, 2 weeks off at Christmas, week of for mid winter break and Easter, probably a dozen "in service days" (where they keep up on their skills), $2.00 prescription deductable, no office co-pay, they don't contribute to their insurance premium, and many other perks. She makes $60,000 and has 4 students! They are slow learners, no other handicap. The teachers have a very strong union in my state. Last year she taught regular 3rd grade and had 14 students. Their contract reads that they are not allowed to have more than 16 kids to a class at that level. Oh and when she retires with full health benefits, low co-pay, and incredible pension, she won't have to pay State income tax on that pension. Our state was cutting education like crazy so I contact me State rep. I said let the teachers pay taxes on their pensions. If they loved teaching so much they shouldn't mind helping out. The rest of us have to pay taxes on our retirements benefits. He said that the teachers union was so strong and had given our Govenor so much money and support that he knew she would never consider it.
To those who have a relative who teaches and is paid badly, I truly feel bad. I've never known any public education teacher that was underpaid or struggling to make ends meet. Just the opposite around here. It is a shame that there is such a discrepancy. Maybe Mr. Bush should look at equalizing teacher pay across the Country instead of "no child left behind".
OK sorry for the rant.
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#360539 - 06/09/05 10:16 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Public school boards in Louisiana are elected positions.
They are elected positions pretty much everywhere, I would imagine. What suprises me is that they are paid. Much less, paid well.
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It is a shame that there is such a discrepancy. Maybe Mr. Bush should look at equalizing teacher pay across the Country instead of "no child left behind".
Because the federal government should have the authority to determine what local school districts should pay their teachers? Which article of the Constitution is that in?
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#360540 - 06/10/05 01:16 AM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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Our school board makes about $20,000.00 each year. Jokerman, I don't want our federal government involved in my local schools but since Mr Bush has decided that "no school left behind" if a federal government initiative he's involved the government. Maybe he should have a program entitled, "no teacher left behind" based on comments I've seen here on low wages. Obviously it's no "article of the Constitution". But when he wants to have a program of "no child left behind" he's opened the door to all children receiving an equally paid education. I don't profess to knowing all the political elements as you seem to feel superior to, but I know, after listening to people in this forum that there are teachers that have very little resources and some that have alot. Obviously each area of the Country has different cost of living standards which dictate salaries, but to hear that some teachers are living at the bare minimum and others are at the lap of luxery, needs some intervention. That's just my opinion, which I thought we could freely discuss here. I'm not looking for an argument, just a place to express my opinion. I just think it's a damn shame that my neice makes $60,000 teaching 4 kids due to a strong union when in other parts of the Country, teachers have to teach 45 normal kids for less money and they are held to the same "no kid left behind" government rule. Each one has to prove that their kids have mastered the same content.
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#360541 - 06/10/05 01:55 AM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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whoops, sorry that was me Tahdah. Thought I was logged in.
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#360542 - 06/10/05 02:41 AM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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There is to much anti teacher menatality and evryone blaming teachers for the failures of schools. This is why vouches will not work cause the money is taken away from where is needed
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#360543 - 06/10/05 03:03 AM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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Quote:
There is to much anti teacher menatality and evryone blaming teachers for the failures of schools. This is why vouches will not work cause the money is taken away from where is needed
Your reasoning is too simplistic. People are not anti-teacher. I think teachers are a part of the blame. Not all teachers, but there has been a brain drain ever since women were able to get jobs outside of teaching. Way back when, if you were a woman and you were getting a college degree, chances are that you were going to become a teacher. The best and the brightest women were going into teaching. That is not so any more. There are many teachers who are the best and the brightest, but not nearly as large a percentage of teachers these days are the best and the brightest. That is not to say that they are not competent.
The other problem is the manner, not the amount, in which teachers are paid. Back in the 50's the best and the brightest teachers made considerably more than the average teachers. The Unions have made sure that does not happen again. All other things equal, mediocre teachers and great teachers are all paid about the same.
Don't get upset, these are just a couple of problems that DO involve the teachers. There are many other problems that do not involve teachers.
The public schools are broken in many communities. If the government can't supply an adequate education, then give the people some of their money back in the form of vouchers and let them send their children where they can get a good education.
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#360544 - 06/10/05 03:33 AM
Re: Public School Problems
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 932
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Yikes anon, I went to a private school in the 50's that had the brightest and best teachers in the area. They were hand picked by Henry Ford the first. We lacked for nothing. There is not brain drain for women in education. Most women would love to have the pay and hours in this area and the unions have made teaching a very desirable job. The voucher system is extremely flawed and the charter schools are failing miserably in this area. I don't know what the answer is ( not in the business to figure this out), but I know it's not working. I went to a school meeting tonight. There were 80 kids eligibal (sp?) for a program this summer. Guess how many of us showed up? 3, and my husband and I were the only couple there, that shows me how many parents care about their kids education. What a sad commentary. Ok, now that I've taken care of my family, I'll watch the NBA game, because my family was more important, but not to many.
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#360545 - 06/10/05 01:35 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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Let's face reality: Public school teaching is not where a smart person with a strong work ethic would desire to work, which means that the standards for employment have diminished. Unionization of teaching since the 60s has resulted in a bloated, bureaucratic, lethargic, whiny group delivering marginal service and fighting any attempt to have performance measurement standards for teachers. The unions fight any attempt at competition (such as through vouchers) and the students who suffer the most from the loss of vouchers are inner-city students. Fourteen weeks off during the summer, six weeks off during the school year, in by 7:30 a.m. and leave at 2:45 to 3:15 p.m., and in New England paid between $60,000 - $82,000 (Connecticut as high as $90,000). If you're a public education union leader, why wouldn't you want to keep this gravy train going? You lobby friendly legislators and congresspeople, fund union-friendly elected officials, and they in turn go easy on changes in public education.
The resistance to No Child Left Behind is based not on students' performance issues, but on the fact that there would be a method of measuring teachers' performance, and the unions do not want any type of job measurement system. No measurement system means everyone is equal: Everyone works at the same pace and produces an equal amount. It's the same factory mentality the United Auto Workers Union implemented for Chrysler, Ford, and GM.
Those who can afford private schools as an alternative will benefit; those with no other option must support the union position to keep arguing for more and more increased funding from the rich to finance public education. It's ugly, and the thought of what public education will be like in 20 years is scary.
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#360546 - 06/10/05 02:06 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Jokerman, I don't want our federal government involved in my local schools but since Mr Bush has decided that "no school left behind" if a federal government initiative he's involved the government.
The federal government has been involved in our schools in violation of the Constitution for some time. I don't support that, and I don't support continuing it, but I am in the minority. Mr. Bush's policy is, as I see it, as long as the federal government is involved, there ought to be standards for what the kids learn. Well, that makes sense to me. What wouldn't make sense would be for the feds to expand their intrusion by coming up with some scheme to dictate what every teacher in America should make.
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to hear that some teachers are living at the bare minimum and others are at the lap of luxery, needs some intervention.
Maybe we could get an example of how with program could work from the Soviets - I bet they paid all their teachers the same.
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I'm not looking for an argument, just a place to express my opinion.
All I've done is express my opinion. Is there place for yours, but not mine?
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#360547 - 06/10/05 02:21 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,858
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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Let's face reality: Public school teaching is not where a smart person with a strong work ethic would desire to work
I don't bvelieve this is reality, at least not in the parish I live in (We have pairshes, you have counties). I'm personal friends with 9 school teachers, and each one is extremely dedicated (4 in elementary, one middle, 4 hs level). Most went in to teaching directly from college, but two gave up lucrative jobs (upwards opf 250k per year) to teach. Each has, for lack of a better term, the calling to teach. They love their jobs. They put in way more hours than required. They are at school early, they stay late. They work dances, after school care, detention, football games, basketball games, car line...the list goes on. Some also volunteer to tutor.
They share your same concerns, that because of outside issues, the schools no longer can discipline, that they must accept students, even ones that disrupt the class day in and day out, that have threatend teachers, been caught vanadallizing the school, their cars, etc. I think you can blame many of those issues on the liberal court system and our good friends in the ACLU.
You are painting too broad a picture with your brush if you think that the only people who are going into teaching have no work ethic or are not smart. (After all, they only work 9 months of the year. Now, that sounds pretty smart to me.)
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#360548 - 06/10/05 03:21 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Power Poster
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,920
OK
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I thought about not chiming in, but I just can't let everyone think that teachers have it THAT good! I come from a family of teachers. My dad was a teacher, my sister is a teacher, I have a teaching degree (but working in a bank) and my husband is a teacher. I wish he made $65,000 a year and got off work at 3:00. He makes about half that and there are days that I don't see him until 11:00 at night. He recently went back to the school on a Sunday afternoon and came home at 2:30 a.m. Even on a good day he usually is there until 5:00 or 6:00. He teaches computer applications (used to be in the science area) and so that he can make that extra $1500 a year puts out the yearbook. He is in his 3rd year of sponsoring the Dance Team (for no pay) just to keep it going. The last day of school was May 26th and there hasn't been a day that he hasn't been up there working. He teaches a multi-media class and once school is out he has no kids and has to finish all projects himself. They only have one Kron and with classtime only an hour, the kids can only do so much. We pay between $400-$500 a month for insurance on him and our two kids, he pays into teacher retirement, we have a $25 co-pay and prescription benefit. The school has two IT people on staff that make as much or more than he does but he usually ends up working with them at the High School as they are busy at the Middle School and Elementaries. Again...no pay unless you count the watermelon one teacher gave him last year because she appreciated his efforts to help all others.
I think I can honestly say that he would do the same thing whether he was paid $20,000 or $50,000. He is just that kind of teacher. It's these kind of teachers that need better pay. I think I can honestly say that if he kept track of his hours, he would be way below minimum wage and he has a Master's degree and has taught for 23 years.
My dad was the same way and the most he made as a Prinicpal was $8,000 when he retired in the 70's. My sister hardly ever leaves school before 5:00 or 6:00 and is in workshops and classes all summer.
Sorry I got on my soapbox, but I can't help it when people say teachers are overpaid. I agree there are some that take advantage of the system. But there are many out there that put their heart and soul into their teaching and working with kids. Those are the teachers that kids come back to see and remember for the rest of their lives.
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#360549 - 06/10/05 03:53 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,300
back to my roots
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Boomermom - I think if you read back to the posts between myself and Tahdah you will see that we made it very clear: not all counties or disctricts pay alike! No one is saying that all teachers are overpaid, not by any means.
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Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan
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#360550 - 06/10/05 04:03 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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These are not personal knocks on teachers; the knocks are aimed at the unions and what has happened to public education as a result of unionization. Every school system is different, but in most school systems a unionized teacher would be forbidden to return to the school on a day off, or to work late without pay. There are school systems where a mere request to have teachers spend an aditional 15 minutes after school is thwarted by requirements to pay a minimum one hour overtime.
Unfortunately, for every story of a loving, caring teacher doing it for the children, there are many more horror stories of public education failures and ineptness.
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#360552 - 06/14/05 04:42 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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There are those teachers who do not even deserve the approximately $30,000 - $40,000 they are paid. Fortunately, they are the exception. However, if teachers were paid more for their work, the competition for the jobs would increase and these undeserving sorts would not even be considered for the job. The problem then is doing something about organizations who protect teachers' jobs without discriminating between good teachers and bad teachers. It should be possible to fire a bad teacher. It should be possible to reward good teachers without also rewarding the bad teachers. It should be possible to reward the outstanding teacher above and beyond the rewards an average teacher receives. And teachers should not have to put up with cr@p from students. They should only have to deal with the things they had to deal with in the 1950s: chewing gum in class, skipping class, etc.... Any student doing anything more nefarious than what a 1950s teacher had to put up with should find himself or herself out in the streets, in the U.S. Army Infantry, or in some other type public service (if they are not old enough for military).
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#360553 - 06/14/05 06:56 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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.... Any student doing anything more nefarious than what a 1950s teacher had to put up with should find himself or herself out in the streets, in the U.S. Army Infantry, or in some other type public service (if they are not old enough for military).
Or worse... Banking!
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#360554 - 06/14/05 07:18 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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... I will use my mom (a 5th grade teacher) as an example. She makes approximately $65k per year, works from 7:45 - 2:15 daily, only occasionally has to bring work home with her, and has to work for only 9 months out of the year! I mean, COME ON! We have the same amount of education! She has YEARS of experience on me, I grant you that. But if you divide the amount of money she makes by 9 (the number of months she actually works) and then times that number by 12 (the numbers of months the rest of us have to work), she earns a pretty big, fat salary! ...
If $65K is 'a pretty big, fat salary'. Because her salary is $65K, not your annualized version of your mother's (fictional) monthly rate.
I'm not sure I can accept economic analysis from someone who writes "times that number by" instead of "multiply by".
And who won't distinguish between a salary and an hourly rate.
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#360555 - 06/14/05 08:00 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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If $65K is 'a pretty big, fat salary'. Because her salary is $65K, not your annualized version of your mother's (fictional) monthly rate.
You should be careful in your own grammar before you criticize someone else's. BOL Threads is very informal; I don't think criticism of grammar or spelling is appropriate here. My advice: Discuss the issues, but ignore grammatical errors and mispelling. 
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#360556 - 06/14/05 08:01 PM
Re: Public School Problems
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
... I will use my mom (a 5th grade teacher) as an example. She makes approximately $65k per year, works from 7:45 - 2:15 daily, only occasionally has to bring work home with her, and has to work for only 9 months out of the year! I mean, COME ON! We have the same amount of education! She has YEARS of experience on me, I grant you that. But if you divide the amount of money she makes by 9 (the number of months she actually works) and then times that number by 12 (the numbers of months the rest of us have to work), she earns a pretty big, fat salary! ...
If $65K is 'a pretty big, fat salary'. Because her salary is $65K, not your annualized version of your mother's (fictional) monthly rate.
I'm not sure I can accept economic analysis from someone who writes "times that number by" instead of "multiply by".
And who won't distinguish between a salary and an hourly rate.
OHHHH PLEAASE!!! 
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#360557 - 06/15/05 02:17 AM
Re: Public School Problems
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You should be careful in your own grammar before you criticize someone else's. BOL Threads is very informal; I don't think criticism of grammar or spelling is appropriate here. My advice: Discuss the issues, but ignore grammatical errors and mispelling.
BOL threads are NOT very informal. You'll see this issue as a sidebar rather often. Maybe some anons choose to write without capitalization or proper grammar but I believe most of us recognize the English language is a tool that works as well as the user knows how to wield it.
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